HubSpot Loop Marketing | The Evolve Stage

This one starts with "Val Kilmer" love and ends with a very real question. Are you actually building a marketing system that learns, adapts, and gets better every time you run it?

In this episode, we wrap up the final stage of the Loop Marketing series: Evolve. The theme is simple but not easy. Most teams say they are improving. Many teams are not measuring the right things, not acting on what they see, and not using automation or artificial intelligence in ways that make the work lighter and better. If you are trying to keep up with modern marketing without burning out your humans or flooding the world with low-quality content, this episode is for you.

What You Will Learn

1. Why reporting and automation are the two “weak spots” that make evolving feel shaky.

2. How predictive reporting changes the game when you stop waiting for results after the fact.

3. Why “pay attention to signals” matters as much as dashboards and charts.

4. A practical mini-framework: Diagnose, Decide, Systematize.

5. How artificial intelligence can speed up the work without turning your marketing into a runaway train.

6. Why iteration should happen all the way through, not just after a campaign ends.

The Big Moments

Skate Better, But Make It Intentional

Max lands on two words that sum up Evolve: “skate better.” At first, it sounds almost too obvious. Like, of course, you should improve. But then the conversation sharpens. The stage matters because it forces a pause. It forces intention. It forces you to look at what happened, ask why, and change what you do next.

For the listener, this is the point: improvement does not happen because you are busy. It happens because you stop, look, and choose.

The Real Achilles Heel: Reporting and Workflows

George calls out a pattern he has seen for years. When people struggle in HubSpot, it is usually with reporting or workflows. That matters because Evolve depends on both. You cannot iterate fast if you cannot see what is working. You cannot act faster if automation is not solid. And if your team avoids learning, you will not evolve. You will just repeat the same moves with new tools.

The meaning here is blunt but hopeful. If these are your weak spots, that is not a shame. That is clarity. Now you know what to strengthen.

Predictive Reporting Enters the Room

Liz brings in a key shift. Traditional reporting tells you what happened after the campaign is already live. You make educated guesses, then you wait for data. Evolve adds a new layer. Predictive performance reporting. Using artificial intelligence tools to forecast, spot patterns earlier, and guide changes sooner.

For the listener, this is a mindset change. You do not just react to history. You start steering toward the future.

Diagnose, Decide, Systematize

George drops a practical way to think about Evolve, and it sticks.

• Diagnose what is happening.
• Decide what you will change.
• Systematize so that the better way becomes the default.

He shares a real example: using an artificial intelligence-assisted workflow to handle HubSpot tasks he personally dislikes, like creating quotes. Instead of spending fifteen to thirty minutes, he watched it happen in minutes, then tweaked the output like a human should.

That is the heart of it. Score yourself honestly. Identify the friction.

Build a system that makes the next round easier.

Practical Next Steps

1. Pick one campaign from the last ninety days and do a thirty-minute review. What worked, what did not, what surprised you?

2. Write a simple scorecard for your marketing. Include three to five metrics you will check every week.

3. Identify your weakest area right now: reporting or automation. Choose one and improve it this week.

4. Schedule one “evolve meeting” each quarter. Use it to diagnose, decide, and systematize as a team.

5. Create a habit of watching signals, not just conversions. Look for patterns in questions, objections, replies, and behavior.

6. Run one small experiment this week. Change one variable, track the result, and document what you learn.

7. If you use artificial intelligence for content, set a quality checkpoint. Do not let volume become your strategy.

Memorable Lines

• “Skate better.”

• “Are you good at reporting?”

• “Human-powered, AI-assisted.”

• “We have not been taught to pay attention to signals.”

• “Diagnose, decide, systematize.”

• “The loop never stops.”

Who This Episode Is For

This episode is for marketers, leaders, and HubSpot users who feel the pressure to move faster, create more, and still keep quality high. It is also for teams who say they are improving but do not have a consistent way to measure, learn, and adjust. If you want to build a system that helps humans flourish while using automation and artificial intelligence with intention, you will feel seen here.

TRANSCRIPT

Max Cohen: Yeah. 

George B. Thomas: In all seriousness, uh, though I can't, I, I can't continue without saying one thing. If you're listening to this, uh. Liz, that shirt. I'm ya h I'm Ya Huckleberry.

Oh my God. I, I, I am a Tombstone fan. I have probably watched Tombstone. I'm going to guesstimate like 32 times and, and 31 and a half of those times was because of Val Kilmer as Doc Holli. Like it's just, just a good movie's. 

Liz Moorehead: Perfect. 

George B. Thomas: Somebody grab 

Liz Moorehead: a screenshot of this while I share this. I'm just, I'm just saying let, lemme see if I can You have.

Free will and you're an adult and have expendable income. I bought this for myself. I also have a Val Kilmer one, that's him as Iceman and Naper and Nap, uh, topup. 

Max Cohen: Yeah. Yeah. 

Liz Moorehead: Uh, yes. So he's been my boyfriend since I saw him in Batman forever in 1995. So, you know. 

George B. Thomas: That's funny. That's funny. 

Liz Moorehead: Thank you. Thank you so much for guys.

Oh, 

George B. Thomas: yes. It's good to be back. How's everybody doing? So I just wanna, I just 

Max Cohen: wanna make sure I'm understanding We're sponsored by our intro. 

George B. Thomas: Uh, I just didn't know where I, I, I, 

Max Cohen: I didn't know where else to go with that. How much is that cue of audio paid us? Yeah. That of audio. Ask 

Liz Moorehead: the question. Why are you deciding right now to become detail oriented?

George B. Thomas: Ooh, right now is the 

Liz Moorehead: moment we choose. 

George B. Thomas: That's crazy. Oh, we're coming in hot after the holidays. Ooh, yeah. Crazy 

Liz Moorehead: work. 

Max Cohen: Work. I love it. 

George B. Thomas: I like detailed oriented max. 

Max Cohen: I'm just flipping my A, D, H, D. Back on. You know it was 

George B. Thomas: off for a while. There you go. Oof. Ouch. Now we need a taco bell 

Max Cohen: BI 

George B. Thomas: don't know where it is.

Max Cohen: Yeah, it's somewhere in there. Hey Smith one. Nice gentleman. This is a good combo. 

Intro: Big summer blowout. 

Max Cohen: Here we go. Nice. 

Liz Moorehead: Well, gentlemen, I don't know how to tell you this. Mm. Well, this is either going to be the last episode of the series. Let's make it the last one series. It's the last or second to last. 

George B. Thomas: No, it's the last one.

It's the last one. It could be the last one, I think. Yeah. 

Liz Moorehead: As, as the person who has had to write the outlines for the past 8,000 episodes in this series. Can we all just go into this from a place of curiosity and not getting my hopes up? 

Max Cohen: I'm curious. Let's see what 

Liz Moorehead: happens. Just see what happens. 

Max Cohen: Yeah.

Liz Moorehead: Because we've come to the final stage. Good God. We have come to the final stage in loop marketing, evolve, and that is what we're going to start and or finish, uh, talking about today. 

George B. Thomas: No, no. We're finishing. I, I'm putting a stake in the ground. This is the last episode of the I believe US Loop Marketing. No matter where we get this, is it?

Yep. 

Liz Moorehead: I appreciate that, so. Mm-hmm. Okay. 

Max Cohen: Yeah, 

Liz Moorehead: evolve. Here we are. Learn fast, act faster. Yeah. The new era of marketing won't wait for your quarterly review and neither will your customers. The Evolve stage is a live feedback loop using AI to track performance and deliver real time recommendation. Right.

Max Cohen: Yeah. Everyth, we can, we can boil, we can boil this down to two words, 

Liz Moorehead: uhoh. Let's already get started. So, yeah. You know what? Normally I turn this over to George to help us simplify the complex. Max is 

Max Cohen: fired up. Let's do it. Ready? Skate better. Oh wow. 

Liz Moorehead: Okay. Better. Can you help us out a little bit? 

George B. Thomas: Does no one understand this reference?

Liz Moorehead: No. 

George B. Thomas: Yes, yes. We, we, we, we, we understand the reference. So, so here's, here's the thing. Oh, this is, this is, this is what this, this stage out of all of them make me the most nervous, and let me explain why. There's two things that I've seen in the HubSpot ecosystem over the years. One, if you ask somebody what their Achilles heel is, in HubSpot, they mention one of two things, reporting or workflows.

Now, if you are trying to iterate fast and you are trying to see what's working, you have to be able to do reporting. It can no longer be your Achilles heel. Also, if you're trying to be nimble, automation and making things automatic or automagical is going to be also a, a pretty cool key piece of this.

Second piece that I've seen in the ecosystem is the amount of humans. I've said, well, have you gotten that certification? Meaning a growth mindset, meaning wanting to learn how to do the next thing Well, to evolve, you have to learn. So if reporting is your Achilles heel, and if you're so busy in a historical industrial age type job, how are you growing yourself to evolve the learnings that you're not actually reporting on?

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer. And can we just say that also there's a new part of this that's entered the room that is, some people understand it, but some people are confused by it, and that is this word that is ai, artificial intelligence. I can't tell you the amount of conversations I've had in the last.

30 to 60 days of somebody calling customer Agent Breeze and somebody calling Breeze customer agent and not knowing which one is what. And the fact that you can do knowledge vaults. And should they be in clawed, should they be in chat pt? Should they be in perplexity? Should they only use breeze? Should it be on their mobile phone?

Should it be on the desktop? And so you've got this like, The deep state. So, so here's the thing. This is, this is the conundrum. We're end, we're, we're about to have a conversation about evolve. Being nimble, uh, as max says, skating better. Skate better.

And are you, I'm gonna ask you, are you good at reporting? Do you have workflows on lockdown? Are you AI assisted and human powered right now? 'cause if those three things are missing, it is very hard to enter into this journey of the evolve stage and not feel shaky. 

Liz Moorehead: Well, I think there's another piece of this too, George, because I think yes to this is not like a yes, but dressed up as a yes and mm-hmm.

Max Cohen: Mm-hmm. 

Liz Moorehead: Genuinely, what we're having a conversation about here is that we are. And this has been true across every aspect of loop marketing, right? We're taking disciplines that we're used to doing or should be used to 

Max Cohen: doing. Mm. 

Liz Moorehead: And now we're going up a level. 

Max Cohen: Yeah. 

Liz Moorehead: But what is interesting about the evolve section is that typically this, this is basically an iteration cycle.

Like measure it, manage it, change. Well, what we're usually used to doing is only having access to reporting data that tells us how we're doing after the fact. Yeah, historic. We make educated guesses. We make, um, strategic decisions, but we don't actually start getting any reporting data until after the campaign is already live.

And only then do we have an iteration cycle available to us in the evolve stage. What I find fascinating about this is that we're actually adding on a new reporting opportunity. Which is the predictive piece, the ability to use the AI tools to do predictive performance reporting. Um, so that is just something I wanna make sure is clear here.

We're not just bringing in new tools to the reporting disciplines that we should have already been doing. 

Max Cohen: Yeah. 

Liz Moorehead: We are also expanding reporting opportunities into the predictive capacity. 

George B. Thomas: Yeah. And what I, what I think. Yes. And again, not a yes and or a yes, but but just a continuing of the conversation.

Like listen it. I did a seven eight part series just recently with Chris, Carolyn about value first humans, and we spent a lot of time talking about signals and paying attention to signals. So like how do you have this mindset of reporting, historical reporting potential? Future and what you see in real time, but also paying attention to signals.

And it's not reporting, but it is a skillset that needs to start to happen. And there are tools in HubSpot that allow you to do this, but fundamentally we're not, we've not been baked in a way to pay attention to signals. We've been baked in a way to put a form on a page. We've been baked on a way to think about conversions, not conversations.

Right? And so how, if you're evolving but you're stuck in the same old ways, then how, how are you truly evolving? I'll, I'll give you an example. Um, I love to design, I, I love to develop, I'm a better designer than I am a developer historically. I showed somebody a page this morning on something that I'm working on and said, Hey, can I just get your thoughts on that?

Their first response was, how in the hell did you do that? Now, I. I'm not that good, but understanding that we're in a world of AI assisted tools, understanding that I need to take time to learn cloud code, understanding the systems that we can set up with cloud code and my designer brain to then make that developer assistant do the things that I see in my head, but could never really get on page the right way.

Are, I'm gonna ask you, are you there, listener, viewer? Are you there? Like, are you challenging yourself to have the skills? And I don't mean Claude skills, although I could talk for a whole hour about those are do you have the skills or are you building the skills to evolve in a way that you have to evolve in the day that we live in?

Not the day that you're coming from, I'll, I'll stop.

Liz Moorehead: Max, this is our episode. Check-in. How you feeling, bud? Uh, are we all zoom overall? Are we off the loop? What's, what's happening here?

Okay, well here's, here's what 

George B. Thomas: I would like to, like, let's, let's just be, uh, can we be authentic? Can we be transparent? Can we be vulnerable for a second? No, 

Liz Moorehead: not allowed. Yeah, it's not 

George B. Thomas: allowed. Um, the four people in this virtual room right now, when you think about the stuff that you do, the things that you build, the life that you live, professional or personal, how much time do you spend in what you would call an evolve mindset or an evolve face?

10%, 

Max Cohen: 20%, 50%. I mean, it's constant. I'm constantly making mistakes and I'm constantly learning from 'em. 

Chad Hohn: Yeah. I would even say like at times during a build process, I'm working a bit on an evolve because I'm thinking about how it's gonna tie into other stuff. Right? So, I mean, it's like always a, a sub-process running in the background, if you would.

Right. It's always kind of like in the back burner because you want to tie it into your existing systems and processes. To include previous learnings in the new thing you're building. And a lot of times when you're working on anything new, marketing, workflow report, anything, it will remind you of something you did before that you didn't employ the technique and you need to go back and maybe do a little cleanup on that, you know?

Yeah. Because you didn't do it so good that one time. Right. Um, so I, I feel like I run into that. Pretty frequently every time I'm working on a new project. 

Max Cohen: Yeah. Um, I think also, like this last stage to me is,

I don't wanna say that it's, I'm, I'm the only, the only reason I'm be struggling with it is like, I almost feel like it's like too basic right in that it's just like. 

Liz Moorehead: Especially to amplify. It's just like, obviously 

Max Cohen: try to do better guys. You know what I mean? Yeah. And like, you know, like I don't know how much this needs to be like a stage, I guess.

Right, right. Maybe it's a nice reminder of like, always do better, always try to improve, da, da da, da da. But like when it says like, run rapid experiments, right? Yeah. I mean, isn't that like. You know, again, it's just, it's saying like, you know, AB testing, da, da, da. It's like almost like just a way to kind of like mention like another, like feature, right?

Because like, you know, in theory you're doing AB testing when you're amplifying stuff and when you're, you know, tailoring your message and stuff like that. Um, and then it's like, do it again. So, I mean, I don't know this stage, to me it feels more like a, just like. I don't know a reminder can, can I tell you, can I tell you's?

It's hard for me to think about it as a stage because it's just like, you're always kind of doing this, you know what I mean? You're always looking at reporting. You're always, you're always saying, what could we do better? You're always saying, what? What did we learn from, lemme stop. You should be. Yeah, yeah.

Doing that. I was gonna say, we're making 

George B. Thomas: some assumptions. Should be, we're making some assumptions. You should be, 

Chad Hohn: yeah. And I was gonna say too, like, are you, are you, even if you should be, are you intentional post each campaign, taking a look at what happened with that specific campaign for that specific audience to see how it did and what tweaks you could make?

I don't always do that. You know, I probably, you know, should, but, but here's 

Max Cohen: where I'm having trouble with this uhoh, is, is this anything groundbreaking? For some 

George B. Thomas: people I think it is. So like that's, if I, so if I go back to, yeah. If I go back to basics right. Um, there is something powerful about being intentional with your time.

Mm-hmm. There's something even more powerful about being intentional with your time in the use of asking questions and poking the bear. What changed? Why did it change? What do we need to do next? Why did the customer say that? Why did the customer act that way? If now all of a sudden, I've seen over the last 30 days, four people have referenced that AI should be my CMO.

What does that mean? That I've been doing. What does that mean that I should continue to do? What does that mean that I should change? Like how should the process change based on like this? This is the thing I, I could take this out of a HubSpot conversation. Yes, there are HubSpot tools. Yes, we can talk about AB testing, but it's like, if you think about evolve, what I would want you to Google, what I would want HubSpot to add is like, what are the psychological, physiological, like emotional things that you should be stopping to think about and do?

For 30 minutes a day, uh, you know, once a quarter we're like having an evolve meeting because we're gonna unpack a whole mess of stuff. Yeah. Like, and we're gonna ask what are 

Chad Hohn: the KPIs that you should look at? Right? Like, okay, if I'm thinking about it practically, what's some KPIs that I want to check up on once a quarter, uh, per campaign type, right.

Or per. You know, different type of thing that I'm trying to work on, or maybe even per, uh, per medium. Like this is like industry benchmarks for, you know, social post engagement in your industry and that kind of stuff. Right. And so like, having a little bit of some of that, that's more quick access where it, it brings everybody into alignment where you're like, we want to do this or better.

Right. If we could, um, you know, sometimes it, it could be KPI based I think would be helpful. 

George B. Thomas: Liz, what are, what are your thoughts? We're waxing a lot of kind of like, I have thoughts stuff. Yeah, no, 

Liz Moorehead: I do have thoughts here. On the one hand, I think we're feeling a little bit of whiplash given how packed amplify is, and this is where I'm actually gonna make an argument to say, I kind of get why the stage is here.

This is one of those things where if you are inbound practitioners, like we are like, this is our job. We have been doing this for a decade or more a 

George B. Thomas: long 

Liz Moorehead: time. Right. Of course, we're measuring and managing. Of course, we're measuring and managing. But I've also worked at places where they do not do that.

Yep. They think they do and they do not. 

Max Cohen: Mm-hmm. 

Liz Moorehead: The other piece of this that I think makes it critical, I think if it were just a generic. Well, once you run your campaigns, use AI to take a look at how they did and then make some changes. Yeah. Then I think we're having a different conversation. Then it's kind of like that's just reporting, but they've added this predictive piece to it, which I think is something of a new discipline.

Also, if we just wanna be corporate, this is a product playbook. They wanna make sure we're using all the little product. Of course. 

Max Cohen: Yeah, 

Liz Moorehead: so I think it's one of those things where it's like, that would be like if somebody told me, well, you know, you have to make content. Now granted, did they put it in the wrong stage and should, 

Max Cohen: no, here we go.

Liz Moorehead: But no, but what I'm saying is like, it would be like if somebody were to say, oh, well just whenever you get your content strategy, you know, just put it in. 

Chad Hohn: We needed a five. It's the same with 

Liz Moorehead: reporting. It's the same with, it is a discipline, it is a critical component that gets overlooked. Reporting strategy is very important.

Yes. Um, I just think also like, can we just talk about being in that room for loot marketing? And they're like, how many stages in Amplify? 25. All right, next stage evolve. How many? We got? Three. Excellent. We love equity. Like,

George B. Thomas: well, but here's, but here's my thing. I wonder if there should be more than three. So like, uh, ladies and gentlemen, humans, my fellow humans, um, I'm gonna ask you a question 'cause I believe in the power again of of questions. Do you have some type of evolve? I'll use that word 'cause that's the stage we're talking about scorecard.

Like, do you have some type of scorecard that you're paying attention to when it comes to your individual campaign? Your quarterly growth, your yearly goal? Like, like what? Do you have a scorecard that you can use and people can look at? And is the organization on the same team and is that scorecard built in a way?

That it's helping you to diagnose, decide, and then systematize what you're doing moving forward. By the way, you might wanna write those three words down in 2026. You should be diagnosing, deciding and systematizing the thing moving forward. Listen, I, I blew my own mind yesterday 'cause I was working with Claude Code in the in, but by the way, I'm not a nerd.

I've never, I mean, I'm kind of a nerd, but I've never used terminal like George. No. Hang on. I wanna stop for a moment. Okay. Not a nerd. 

Liz Moorehead: Not 

George B. Thomas: a nerd. I mean, I'm, I'm kind of a nerd, but I've never used terminal a day in my life, and over the last 30 days, I've been in terminal and know what WSL, cd, you know.

Anyway, all of these, I, I know these things now. And yesterday talking about systems because we should be ta Yes, you should se set goals. Yes, you should have great habits. Yes, you should be evolving and growing yourself over time, but you need to build systems to follow, to do that. Okay, so that's, that's why I'm leaning into this diagnose aside and then systematize.

Yesterday, I literally built a Claude Code skill after using Claude Code to do a system where I said these words, listeners, can you do this right now? Cloud code. Can you please find said person in my portal? Uh, can you then please create a deal for said person and associate it to the contact and company?

Please add this product as a line item. Give it a $500 discount, and then can you go ahead and make that into a quote? Beep, boop boop, beep boop, boom. And I watched the things just like in my HubSpot portal, all right? Mm-hmm. And I was like, this is the dopest stuff ever. Because what I used to spend probably like 15, 20, 30 minutes doing just happened in two minutes.

Why? Because I scored myself. I suck at creating quotes. I hate creating quotes, you know, who's good at creating quotes. It even wrote the comments and terms. I had to tweak it a little bit. Human powered AI assisted. Yeah. Yeah. Wrote the comments and terms and like I had, within seven minutes I had a quote out done.

And so like, but I have to score myself. What does your products look like in your HubSpot portal right now? What does your quote template look like in HubSpot right now? How have you set yourself up to iterate and automate the things that you suck at historically? What scorecard are you using so that you can actually diagnose if you suck or not decide what to change about it and build a system moving forward?

Okay, I'll, I'll shut up. I'll shut up.

Max Cohen: Hmm. 

Liz Moorehead: How are you, buddy? 

Max Cohen: I'm good. I think I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm preparing a graphic for LinkedIn. Oh, 

George B. Thomas: you're Uhoh? Oh, no. Oh, God. I'm nervous. It just sums 

Max Cohen: up the way the, the, the final version of how Maxx looks at the, uh. Looks at the loop. The loop. 

Liz Moorehead: Whoopsie. We get a sneak preview. 

Max Cohen: Uh oh Lord. Do you 

Liz Moorehead: wanna talk us through it?

Max Cohen: Well, right now it just says, express onboard your ais so they can make content about your shit. Oh, geez. Taylor says, make a bunch of lists. Sorry, segments of people you're gonna make content for. Amplify. Do all of the work. Evolve is gonna say Skate better. Oh Lord. No, no, no. It's only 'cause I like to don't cancel us.

Sub smart. I we're sorry. Sum. I like to, I like to, I mean, you put, am I wrong? Am I wrong? Well express, I mean kind of in, in a ways. You only have 

Chad Hohn: to train the AI one time and then it's about using the AI to empower you to express better. Yeah. Except you have to 

Liz Moorehead: iterate the expression. I'm 

Max Cohen: not gonna say amplifies, do all the work, but.

I mean, it kind of is. Do all the work, isn't, there's a lot of work in there. There's a lot of work. There's a lot of, well, but be fair, there is a lot of work content strategy, onboarding, but that makes me sad. Onboarding your content agent properly. That is a feat in itself, 

George B. Thomas: right? What? See, here's the thing that's frustrating the hell outta me right now, is that I feel like there's the conversation that could be had that if you did more work here.

Evolve. You could do less work there, or at least you'd be doing the right work. Yeah, because let's be honest with ourselves, how many times have we done work and been like, well, that was a real show. Like. 

Max Cohen: No, I fully, I fully agree with that. Yeah. Oh, totally. Yeah. So like, I mean, everything you do and evolve is gonna make the subsequent passes through everything else much easier.

So 

George B. Thomas: why do we spend so little intentional time in it? Like, Chad, you literally caught, I have a subagent that runs in the back of my brain. That's always kind of thinking about, but like, shouldn't it be like a main agent? Like mm-hmm. Should, I don't know. 

Max Cohen: Understand. People gonna hate me on say, when I say skate better again.

It's, it's just, it's, it's emphasizing the essence and the spirit of the evolve stage. Yeah. Right. It's, it's like you're always the cube. You're to, there 

George B. Thomas: you go, how I'll keep up with you ging the cube. You're always 

Max Cohen: trying to do better. Right. Uh, and, and this is where you make it an intentional part of your strategy.

Yeah. To make a commitment to do that. Yeah, and you have all, and I think that makes a lot of sense, this wonderful data at your fingertips, whether it's just raw reporting numbers that you're looking at, whether it's a campaign that you're looking at, whether it's, you're asking your, your AI to kind of break down maybe this larger data set that you can't quite wrap your head around, right?

Mm-hmm. But these are all the things that you're doing in order to like make sure. That your subsequent passes doing all this stuff. 'cause this loop never stops. That's why they made it an infinity symbol. It's a never ending process, right. That you constantly iterating on. I think we might look at this and say, oh, I mean I might look at this and say, oh, this seems like a pretty obvious thing.

Right. But, uh, now that we've kind of talked through it. Even if it is just serving as a reminder and saying, Hey, take a minute. Be intentional. Yeah, be sure. Yeah. Be sure you're intentional about catching your breath and looking at what's happening, because the last thing you want is a runaway freight train powered by ai, just creating a bunch of slop that you're not.

Keeping any sort of track of, track of mm-hmm. You're, you're, because you're there. There's a see, right? There's this new world where the old problem is not creating any content at all. The new problem is creating a ton of AI shit that's doing nothing and not working well and maybe hurting you. Right. So you have to be intentional and, and, and watch it and like make sure you're not kind of Yeah.

Breaking something. Yeah. Right. 

Chad Hohn: Um, you know, so I like that it's there, right? Yeah. Um, I think it makes sense to like button it up. It just, it, it is like, I think, like Liz said, it's jarring when it comes from like do a lot of things with a lot of bullet points because there's a lot of tools that tie into Amplify, right?

Mm-hmm. There are so many things Yeah. Inside of HubSpot. Outside of HubSpot that you can do with Amplify, right? Um, but with Evolve. You know, just getting in there and really understanding what does it mean to skate better is like crazy. And if you haven't tried it before, if you're like a chat GPT user, the deep research connector takes like 15 minutes.

But if you get some good consistent prompts and. It goes and researches your HubSpot. If you haven't connected your HubSpot, you get deep research connector. That's pretty cool. Mm-hmm. Now, if you're like, you know, George was talking about, you were talking about Claude code before, right? Yeah. Um, well if you just get the, the HubSpot MCP server mm-hmm.

And hook it up to Claude. You don't even need Claude code, you don't need terminal, you just need to put like a private app token in a config file for Claude, uh, to access your MCP server. And it can actually, from Claude Desktop, jump into and do all the things that George was talking about, even outside of Claude Code.

Yeah, inside of the Claude Desktop app. So. There's a lot of ways that you can really get some cool visibility and execution, um, on a lot of things inside of HubSpot from your AI assistance. And then I think sometimes people don't even remember that, you know, there's a separate, uh, prebuilt marketing analytics and some prebuilt marketing reports in the reporting section to base your stuff off of if you're trying to bring yourself.

Back into using as many standard HubSpot properties as possible, wherever you can. This is like a fundamental foundation. Always try and make sure you're using as many of those standard properties unless you have a good reason not to. Uh, because all of those default reports are based on 'em, and if you, you know, store similar things in other properties, you'd be breaking the system.

Right. And then them reports don't work no more and ain't nobody got time for that. Mm. But anyway, there's a lot of. Yeah, there's a lot of like really good tools that exist already in the system, and I think if I go back from HubSpot's kind of perspective and just at least give them the benefit of the doubt of where they're, where they're coming from is like we have a whole bunch of junk now in our system that not everybody uses all of, and we want to put all of the tools in the order that we feel like they should be used.

If you wanted to do this and improve your processes. 

Max Cohen: I like kinda like last question around this is this Yeah. Is do them, like, are they doing a disservice by presenting this as a linear 1, 2, 3, 4 step process? 

Liz Moorehead: Yeah, that's actually where I was get starting to get a little bit weird about this.

Because the more that we're talking about evolve, I'm like, wait a minute, so you're telling me I'm gonna complete everything and amplify before I even begin to think about iteration? Yeah. You're going to like.

Max Cohen: I almost feel like it should just be a circle again instead of the infinity thing. No, because even like the infinity thing, kind of like confu, like it, I, I mean, you could just have 

Chad Hohn: a circle with four stops. It's the same thing. Yeah. If you have a circle with four stops instead of a circle with three stop, then it's just a flywheel again.

You know what I mean? It's well, right, but. You know, like it's, it's cyclical. Why didn't they just 

Liz Moorehead: attach it to the flywheel? 

Chad Hohn: I know. Just another ring in there, huh? Yeah. 

Liz Moorehead: Well, no, like, just say like 

Chad Hohn: some spinner rims. We 

Liz Moorehead: need, 

George B. Thomas: we need some other rims. Remember the time 

Liz Moorehead: George said we would get through this in one episode.

That was so cute. Looking forward to seeing you next week about Vault Buddy. 

George B. Thomas: Nope. No. No, we're cutting it here. It's, uh, it's done here. Good. Like, I feel like we've, 

Max Cohen: we've cooked this 

George B. Thomas: goose. Yeah. This, this the loop marketing. Um, we're done with this conversation. I'm sure maybe it'll drizzle back in, but. Um, at, at the end of the day, and I'm not, I'm not ending the episode, but at the end of the day, like, you know, this is, this is a very vital piece.

It feels like it could have and should have more weight as HubSpot moves forward and bakes this out a little bit more. That was fun. Um, it's the beginning of the year and there's all sorts of technological, uh, issues. 'cause now Chad is Delgado. But, um, anyway, um, 

Liz Moorehead: anybody need an emotional support cap mirror?

Ooh, I thought 

George B. Thomas: you were gonna have muffins. Emotional support muffins would be, would be good. Uh, anyway. Yeah. 

Liz Moorehead: Well, let me ask this. As we begin to slowly land the plane Yeah. How are we all feeling at the end of this? 18 episode Journey. I dunno, it was episode Journey. 

Max Cohen: It wasn't 18, it was like 36, but wow.

We've done 174 episodes of Loot Mark and the Bible ain't got nothing on us baby guys. It's 2030.

Nah. Yeah. Ever. Yeah.

The ampersand. Oh my God, that's so great. The test 

Liz Moorehead: act. Flywheel. 

Max Cohen: Inbound. 2050. Ampersand. Marketing. Introducing the Pentagon. Oh gee. 

Liz Moorehead: It's a joke. Two conclusions, Matt. All right. Guys, how are we feeling? 

George B. Thomas: I feel great. Listen, it's, it's been a fun journey. Um, I think there's been some very interesting conversations.

Um, I, I, I hope that it's been helpful to the, who have listened along the way. Um, I'm sure there's micro tips that they can pull out. I, I, I am, I'm trying to think about. Putting all these episodes kind of in together into one page and, uh, and, and see, I, I'm, I'm actually really curious, uh, when I put all of these episode transcriptions into my, uh, loop marketing assistant that I have built months ago when we started this journey, they'll just spit out a 

Liz Moorehead: word.

No, publish. I'll, I'll be, I'll be interested 

George B. Thomas: to see what it spits out as for else like a, yeah. As a draft, uh, for me to like then try to figure out what to do with. But, um, you know, I, I think there's, I think there's some very important things to pay attention to. I think that we, because of who we are, made some large assumptions along the way, and, um, again, at least we're having the conversation at a deeper level than everybody who was trying to cover it in a six minute or less video, which was like not even possible.

Yeah, that's, you know, 

Liz Moorehead: I just want a super cut of every time Max went ugh. In the whole conversation. Geez. And it'll be like 45 minutes long, or, you know, you know, you know, you know 

Max Cohen: that one? Tell Yeah. Tell Noah to make a, a super cut of my frustration. No noises. Yeah. Oh, geez. Yeah. Of every, every time Max crashed out, I need a, I need a, I need a super cut of that.

That crash cut went outta that. I think I did. I definitely crashed out. More than multiple times. Any, any other, any other topic you've ever done? Any other topic on this period? I've never 

George B. Thomas: seen so many crashes. 

Max Cohen: Yeah. Uh, yeah. 

George B. Thomas: It 

Max Cohen: was really cathartic for me, actually. I think I got a lot out. It worked well there for a lot of stuff there then it was good.

It was good. It was great. It's good for me. Oh no. Sometimes you just need to crash out. Yeah. Honestly, 

Liz Moorehead: as long as you don't have to put an insurance policy out. Yep. Um, here are my feelings on it. Um, I feel great and not great at the same time. Interesting as you can tell. 'cause I just got fuzzy. Um, I feel great and not great at the same time.

This is clearly something where, hold on. The fact that I'm fuzzy is driving me crazy there. Nope. 

George B. Thomas: You know your audio isn't fuzzy so people listening can still hear you crystal clear. 

Liz Moorehead: That's great. 

George B. Thomas: Yeah. Fuzzy wuzzy. 

Liz Moorehead: It's clear that they were making a product playbook. 

George B. Thomas: Yeah. 

Liz Moorehead: And we're fine with that. That's fine.

I just can't get over how not sustainable this playbook is. It should, like, did it need to be four simple steps or could it have just been a really banging resource center that takes you through different disciplines and actually has equitable broken down steps like the Amplify to evolve? Drop off is crazy and should be studied.

To our point in this very episode, evolve is something that should be happening along the way, like you're not just doing it at the campaign level. I am also taking a look at data in content pieces. How are they performing, like reporting and data gathering and iteration. It's something that should be kind of part of the DNA of everything that you're doing, and that's just one example.

Again, I understand the why behind this. And I am sure I can hear Chris Caroline screaming somewhere, but I'm just not getting it. But here's the thing, it's a both end situation. I get why we are here. I get why we are here. 

Max Cohen: Yeah. 

Liz Moorehead: The execution of this is crazy. 

Max Cohen: Mm. 

Liz Moorehead: And as the content person, I'm just gonna say this outright.

Oh yeah. Just go build a content strategy and then do 18 other things and amplify. 

Max Cohen: Mm-hmm. 

Liz Moorehead: The stuff that we were talking about in tailoring your message, they're creating all this brand new language for two very simple documents, a brand messaging strategy, and a content style guide. And then they don't even give you the real tools to develop those, like content continues to show itself as the black box of HubSpot.

Max Cohen: Mm-hmm. 

Liz Moorehead: They have, mm-hmm. The customer platform to get all of it done. They tell you to build all of these assets, but like there's nothing about building brand messaging strategies. Nothing really about building a voice and tone style guide. 'cause George, you've been through that process 

Max Cohen: with me. 

Liz Moorehead: Yeah.

HubSpot gives you the opportunity to put all the outputs of those things in, but they don't tell you how to get those outputs. Yeah, 

Max Cohen: same 

Liz Moorehead: thing with content. 

Max Cohen: Yeah. 

Liz Moorehead: I'm, I am, I'm waiting for 12. It's been 12 years for them to show us how to build a full funnel content strategy. I've taught myself how to do it.

I know how to do it, but like a new inbound marketer. Oh God, you literally just gave him, go build a content strategy. Okay? So you have to learn how to talk to sales. You have to learn to talk to your Rev team. You have to learn to do keyword research. You have to learn how to do sales enablement content.

Then you have to learn how to build, balance that all out in a great 90 day roadmap. I mean, 

George B. Thomas: listen, I, I, I have great empathy, but cannot fathom. If today is somebody's day one at their new marketing job, 

Liz Moorehead: there you go. 

George B. Thomas: Oh my God. Like, I, I just don't even know. I,

Max Cohen: way. You, you know that moment when you know that moment when your plane like finally lands and like Yeah.

You, you realize it's not gonna do the, the wobble thing. Yeah. And like go off the runway and it's like you feel the brakes you on and you're slowing down. You're like, I made it. Yeah. That's how I feel right now. Yeah. Loop marketing. 'cause that whole. That whole series was just a rough, bumpy flight. That was a flight.

I didn't know if we were gonna make it, but we did. There was turbulence over here. Yeah. 

George B. Thomas: But now we can, uh, get off the plane and go get our, uh, local coffee. I.