Lead Scoring in HubSpot for dummies (HubHeroes, Ep. 15)

If you’re new to inbound, modern companies traditionally rely on solutions like HubSpot to put lead scoring models into practice. In fact, if you ask me, lead scoring (when done right!) can typify the why and how of leveraging technology to create scalable growth strategies that drive revenue for your business. 

🔎 Related: What is HubSpot, really? (The definition most people get wrong)

Of course, that’s the key – “when done right.” Which is exactly what we’re going to dig into in this lead scoring in HubSpot guide for dummies. 

If your lead scoring model for your HubSpot contacts is being developed in a vacuum by only sales, only leadership, only marketing, or only two of those three teams I just mentioned, you’re gonna have a bad time. (That’s right, marketing teams – EVERYONE has to agree how a marketing qualified lead is defined.)

If your lead scoring model is something you developed a long, long time ago, in a mess of spreadsheets and Zoom calls far, far away, you’re gonna have a bad time. (Sorry, leadership and sales – you’ve got to look at your lead scoring strategy more than once a decade!)

🔎 Related: HubSpot contacts mastery is the key to maximizing HubSpot ROI

If you’ve been doing lead scoring for a while, and you’re using HubSpot … well, you’re not gonna have a bad time, but we’d strongly urge you to listen in. (We guarantee you’re leaving money on the table right now – and we’re going to help you fix that.)

Of course, there is a chance that if you're doing lead scoring now – or you're thinking about it – your biggest mistake was doing it at all! (That's right, lead scoring isn't for everyone.) The only way to find out is to listen in to this week's episode.

Here's what we cover in this episode ...

• Who should and shouldn't be doing lead scoring through HubSpot.
• What people think lead scoring is vs. what it actually is – and why the heck there's such a difference between those two answers.
• What people get wrong with lead scoring strategy and implementation, as well as what they should be doing. 
• Our favorite hacks, tips, and tricks for making lead scoring magic in HubSpot ... if you're worthy of such an endeavor.
• The quickest ways to botch lead scoring in HubSpot and make a big ol' mess of everything.
• What lead scoring can really do for you and your goals, and how lead scoring should never exist in a vacuum. 
• Why you need to check the box on creating great content first (and about a thousand other things) before you even think about touching lead scoring.

And that's only the beginning ... 

YOUR ONE THING FROM THIS EPISODE

When Liz asked us for our "one thing" at the end of this episode, we complied with her request by giving her 17 different things ... because we're great at following directions. That said, if I were to distill down our conversation into a single takeaway, it would be this:

Whether you're just getting started with lead scoring or you've been doing it for some time, there is likely a huge delta between what you're doing and what you should be doing. So, the first step for you is to not make assumptions and be willing to completely reimagine how you look at lead scoring for your business. (And this episode can help you get started!)

RESOURCES FOR THIS EPISODE

• What does great content actually look like? (HubHeroes, Ep. 2)
• Who are your buyer personas, anyway? (HubHeroes, Ep. 4)
• HubSpot Flywheel: Engage phase ... and is building trust crap? (HubHeroes, Ep. 7)
• Max now has swag, y'all – become a RevOps GOAT
• Questions about reporting ROI with HubSpot? Let's talk!

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

George B. Thomas: Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are you plagued by silo departments? Are your lackluster growth strategies demolishing your chances for success? Are you held captive by the evil menace, Lord Lack, lack of time, lack of strategy, and lack of the most important and powerful tool in your superhero tool belt, knowledge. Never fear hub heroes.

Get ready to don your cape and mask, move into action, and become the hub hero your organization needs. Tune in each week to join the league of extraordinary inbound heroes as we help you educate, empower, and execute. Hub heroes, it's time to unite and activate your your powers. Before we begin, we need to disclose that both Devin and Max are currently employed by HubSpot at the time of this episode's recording. This podcast is in no way affiliated with or produced by HubSpot, and the thoughts and opinions expressed by Devin and Max during the show are that of their own and in no way represent those of their employer.

Liz Moorhead: Welcome back to the Hub Heroes podcast. I don't know about y'all, but whenever I hear a fine print let read out loud, I just, like, I get hyped. The passion. Anyway I

George B.Thomas: love that guy's cadence too, by the way. The cadence that he gets on that is like it's like he's rapping it almost a little bit.

Liz Moorhead: I literally have never heard safe harbor language read in such a way where I'm like, and what's Nicolas Cage gonna do next? What's gonna happen? Anyway, hi, everyone. I am your long walks on the beach hating host and HubSpot nerd wrangler, Liz Murphy. As always, I am joined by George b Thomas, our fearless leader of the League of Hub Heroes, as well as Max Cohen and Devin Bellamy of HubSpot, whose disclaimer is only as distinguished as their expertise.

Gentlemen, how are you?

Devyn Bellamy: I'm good.

George B.Thomas: No. He's better than good.

Liz Moorhead: Wow. Yeah. Calm down. Everyone calm down.

George B.Thomas: First of all, he's Devin is better than good. Devon is a rev ops god today. True. Yeah.

Liz Moorhead: Hey. Where'd you get that? Swag alert. Swag alert.

Devyn Bellamy: So I got the hat from a little website. That's shop.maxjacobcohendot com, which is crazy because his real middle name is Aloysius, but I guess Jacob is

Max Cohen: just easier as well. Wow.

Liz Moorhead: So I'm loving I'm loving the swag alert with some shade throw in thrown in. I love that. Big fan.

Devyn Bellamy: The the thing is is that, like, I'm always gonna remember him because he is my first TikTok. Never made a TikTok before. First TikTok was my model walk. So feel free to go check my one they they say you'll always remember your first. So, Max, thank you for

George B.Thomas: we are still talking about TikTok. Right?

Max Cohen: I'm I'm honored. I'm honored that I was your first.

Devyn Bellamy: Well, he commented afterwards. And so Oh, we're

Max Cohen: talking about TikTok. Okay.

Max Cohen: Yes. Yeah.

Max Cohen: Okay. Sick. Okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's what I meant too. Yeah.

George B.Thomas: Liz, you're doing a bang up job wrangling,

Max Cohen: the,

George B.Thomas: hosts. Yeah.

Max Cohen: Wrangle us.

George B.Thomas: Go ahead.

Liz Moorhead: Listen, George. Listen, George. I'll wrangle when you hit record.

Max Cohen: Oh. Oh. Oh.

George B.Thomas: Shots shots fired.

Max Cohen: Call you back.

George B.Thomas: Listening next week, Josh. Understand what the heck that's about.

Max Cohen: Foreshadowing. I love it.

Liz Moorhead: Is it foreshadowing if it's already happened? I don't I don't know. Anyway Well,

Devyn Bellamy: for the listeners.

Max Cohen: Maybe it's aloysius, because I don't know what that means either. But I feel like I'm that.

Liz Moorhead: Speaking of aloysius, today's topic is all about lead scoring, and that's what we call a segue. That is beautiful. We're talking about isn't it? Thank you.

Devyn Bellamy: I was looking I was curious as to where you're gonna go with that, and and and you did not disappoint. So absolutely.

Liz Moorhead: I'm glad I don't disappoint someone, Devin. George. No. So today, we're talking all about lead scoring. Right?

How people get it right, but most importantly, how people get it so horribly wrong. For example, our lead has a score of 632, which I think is a good thing. Maybe I'm not a 100% certain what that means. So to get us in the mood for numbers that don't matter or are so ridiculous, I have a trivia question for you. Trivia.

The highest scoring NFL football game ever was between 2 teams for a total of a 113 points. The winner scored 72. The loser scored 41. Name the 2 teams.

George B.Thomas: Oh, man. I suck at this, but first

Max Cohen: I'm just gonna say Tom Brady. He's the GOAT. Well

George B.Thomas: And, so so

Max Cohen: It had to have been him. There's no other options.

George B.Thomas: Yeah. No. So I feel like green Green Bay Packers, for some reason, Green Bay Packers, to me, feels like one of the teams, but I don't remember, like, if it is and if who they played. But what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do Green Bay Packers versus, like, the Philadelphia Eagles and be completely wrong.

Liz Moorhead: Well, good news. You were right about one thing. Yeah. How wrong you were. Devin, you.

Devyn Bellamy: Well, as enthusiastic as I am about all things sportsball, I will just go out and say the San Francisco 40 niners when they were still in San Francisco, in San Francisco, and the Houston Oilers when they were still the Houston Oilers.

Liz Moorhead: So here's the thing. In case anybody's wondering, yes, I am playing favorites today. Devin, I love that you still call them the Houston Oilers. Also, Muffin, you're very, very wrong. So the the game was played on a crisp day in November, November 27, 1966, between Washington against the Giants.

Yep. The Giants had 6 turnovers, and Washington had 3 non offensive touchdowns, which is probably more touchdowns than they've scored in the last 3 seasons combined.

George B.Thomas: The funny thing is that most people in companies, especially sales teams, know about as much as their lead scoring as we knew about that question.

Liz Moorhead: You know, speaking of valuicious, George, that leads me to my first question. So I wanna get right into lead scoring. There's a big difference between what lead scoring actually is and what people think it is. So, George, I wanna turn it over to you. Talk to me a bit about what people think it is.

George B.Thomas: Yeah. I mean, most of the time when we get into this conversation, especially if people have purchased HubSpot, they got tantalized by something called predictive lead scoring. It was one of the selling points that sales was like, and you don't have to do anything, and it spits out this magical number. And you're gonna have all the qualified. Yeah.

No. Anyway, so they think that it's like this automatic number that means something, but, unfortunately, it's this number that means nothing to nobody because of the things that they're doing wrong with it.

Liz Moorhead: Devin, Max, talk to me. You guys live and breathe lead scoring. It might be a part of the platform that you guys work on. What do you hear where you're just like, oh my gosh. Why?

No. Opposite. Yes. This is the opposite of what it really is.

Devyn Bellamy: So I have a hot take on lead scoring and that we can discuss later is I don't recommend it. I would say even most companies use it. And the reason why it might shock you. I'd say a lot of people, especially salespeople, think it is, the best way to cherry pick leads.

Max Cohen: Yeah. No thinking required is what a lot of people do before they say the words, we want lead scoring. So, honestly, I think a lot of the people that run-in the circles that we do get it, but a lot of the people that I talked to that are looking to buy a tool that does it, it tends to be a cool boss like, a cool word they heard their boss say that they need to do and then there isn't really much else behind it. Because oftentimes when people say, oh, we need to do lead scoring. I'll go why?

And then they'll go and they don't have any answer. And and that's 1 super frustrating. 2, leads to a whole bunch of bunch of unnecessary complexity that you don't need to deal with. But 3, also kinda like reveals a lot of the un uninformed, direction that someone might have when they're exploring a a marketing technology or something like that. I don't know what people think it is sometimes because I think everyone's got their own different misunderstanding of it.

I mean, a lot of people do get it right, but majority of people, it's it's a little bit of a project

George B.Thomas: getting them there. I love that so much because it proves to me that about 9 years ago, when I picked up the mantle to figure out lead scoring in a way to make it actually something worthwhile, my heart is filled with joy that that that's actually what Max said right now.

Max Cohen: Well, it is the holiday season, George.

George B. Thomas: So

George B.Thomas: Yes. It is.

Max Cohen: I'm glad you're full of joy.

Devyn Bellamy: Unless you're listening to this in early February or something

Liz Moorhead: Gosh. Guys, we're full of so much joy today talking about taxes, groundhogs. What is lead scoring? Something you should never do. Please don't.

Moving on. We're really off to a great start. But, George, what do you think about Devin's hot take?

George B.Thomas: Yeah. So I understand maybe where he might be going, but I also have my own narrative around the polar opposite of that and where every company should probably be using it. But it just depends, honestly, of if it's this massive case of confusion, or if there's a pleasantly laid out plan that actually makes things actionable and where it's diagnosing where a contact is in the flywheel or sales funnel. So I'm interested to actually hear his hot take, but I feel like I subscribe to the polar opposite of it. Maybe.

Potentially.

Max Cohen: Could I tack on another angle of George's angle on Devon's hot take? Much like anything in Hub Spot that takes you a fair bit of brain power to think about how you tactically set it up, there needs to be real utility behind it. Just like there needs to be real utility in any report you build or any integration you scope out and create or whatever. There needs to be a really good why behind it because there's a lot of mental calories that can go into not only what your lead scoring model is, but how you're actually using the output of it. And a lot of times, the output, people just are just like,

Max Cohen: we'll have numbers that say that some numbers are bigger and some are smaller, and that's gonna be helpful.

Liz Moorhead: I couldn't agree more with you because sometimes when I hear lead scoring and I think about lead scoring, first of all, my brain hurts. I go down the dark sad path like Devin does where I'm like, can everyone just go away? You're ruining everything. But then another part of me is just like, that's what marketers do. We take beautiful things like lead scoring or let's say just the word authenticity for a moment.

Authenticity was great until marketers got a hold of it in a room with a whiteboard and beat it to death. And now it's authenticity and it makes us all wanna cry inside. And I feel like lead scoring is kind of the same thing. Everybody likes the idea in principle, but they ruin it before they even learn what it means, how it should be used, what's possible. I get what you're saying, Devin.

And I'm also wondering if we're going to a pure, beautiful, pleasantly planned, as George put it, place, a utopia, if you will, what's possible? What can it be? What should it be?

Devyn Bellamy: In, the perfect world, one of the best things it is is a tool to keep leads from falling through the cracks. You can trigger automation off of it. You can trigger alerts saying someone's taken a buy action, and it's increasing. There's, like, so many different things you can do with it that basically will alert you to someone who's a good fit that did involve you sitting and staring at their contact records every day or even someone who wasn't on your radar. It's like, oh, well, who is this?

And you can take action based on that.

Liz Moorhead: That sounds a lot like what George was saying as well, but here's where I'm curious because I saw a ton of head nods when you said this. You said it's a tool that keeps people from, quote, falling through the cracks. How big of a problem is that? George, do you see that a lot when working with any of your clients?

George B.Thomas: Well, first of all, yes. It's a it's a huge issue with many companies that we help because everybody is so busy, especially and I'll I'll put a caveat to this. And, again, I'm gonna tease like Devin did. I wanna talk about this. When you're great at your job, falling through the cracks becomes inevitable.

When I say great at your job, what I mean is content creation, in bound, paid ads, social media. You have more people coming into the door than you can actually pay attention to from a sales team because you're good at your job. And so what lead scoring should be is a place, and I I agree with falling through the cracks, but I like to actually even position it to you just get a window into where they're at, and you can stop it before they fall through the cracks. Right? And that you're right, Liz.

That's why I said diagnose where your contacts are in kind of the funnel and the actions that are needed by the teams that are helping dependent upon where they are. So it's huge problem, by the way. Did I say that yet? It's a huge problem falling through the cracks. No.

I mean, it hurts. It hurts when humans fall through the cracks. You're gonna break some bones. You're like, you don't wanna do that. You wanna help people.

Max Cohen: Well, here's the thing. Ready? A 127. Is that a low lead score or a high lead score? Yeah.

Who knows? And that's that's that's part of the problem. So we have it set in our outline here. We're saying, what is it really? What is lead scoring really?

It's a number field. You're gonna see a number in a field. It's gonna say lead score and then number. The question is, what does that number mean, and what are you gonna do with it? And do other people know what it means?

Do other people need to know what it means? That is, like, the the the real nuance stuff that, like, a lot of people don't think about. You're gonna have a bunch of positive attributes, negative attributes, you know. So contact property equals something or they've done something or they do something, give points or take away points. Right?

But again, it's just putting a number into a field. So if that's literally what's happening, what are you doing to be creative of what that's telling you? I think we can get into a little bit later on in terms of, like, what factors should kinda change that number. That's only half the equation. The other half is, like, what are you actually doing with it?

And that kinda goes back to what I mentioned earlier. You have to have, like, a fine utility for it. It needs to bring you value as a marketer or a CRM administrator or whatever in a salesperson in one way shape or form. And that involves a ton of communicating with your sales team, communicating with other, you know, parts of the business that are gonna use this magical number that you you brought. So there's a big problem in, like, complex And I think people's unwillingness to really get creative around it and really kinda think through what it is versus just being a vanity number that's high, because someone clicked a bunch of blog posts.

Like, come on. That's so so stupid.

George B.Thomas: Well and that's only part of it. Right? Because they clicked bunch of blog posts. What's fun, Max, is you're leaning into, and I'll talk eventually about informationally qualified versus engagement qualified. Because engagement is, like, they're 2 totally different things, and are you scoring for both?

And actually, how are you paying attention to that? And doesn't make sense anyway.

Liz Moorhead: No. Don't be quiet. Because actually, George, you're getting into what we need to talk about, which is now that we understand that there's a lot of people thinking that it's a number on a screen and we're all gonna have very good time even though no one knows what it means and what actually is. I mean, that's what that's what they've all sounded like in every meeting I've been into. I don't I don't know what alignment meetings you're sitting in on.

But all this comes down to, again, wow. I'm so surprised. HubSpot is only as smart as the strategy you put into it. So let's talk about it. What do companies get wrong when they're building out their strategy?

George B.Thomas: Yeah. There's a couple things that I'll hit off of the bat here for sure. First of all, the amount of times that I've seen somebody talk about lead scoring like it's a one and done, meaning I'm gonna go put lead scoring into the machine and then I'm gonna walk away and it's gonna do its thing is grotesque because they need to actually envelope this campaign driven ideation of lead scoring. Meaning, yes, when you first get into HubSpot, you're bringing a lot of historical things in. Yes.

There should be a layer of, okay. Let's go ahead and add lead scores to the emails and landing pages and things that we created because we're getting engagement from it. But that's where it ends. They don't think about the next campaign that they drop. Well, what's the CTA click worth?

What's the landing page visit worth? What's the form conversion worth? And the next campaign and the next campaign and the next campaign after that, and all of a sudden you've got, like, 17 campaigns, but we got lead scoring for when you first launched HubSpot 7 years ago. And it makes absolutely no sense. It has to be a symbiotic ever growing thing that you're adding every time you add new content.

The other thing that is it's not teams. I added an s on there for a reason. It's not teams focused and it's not action oriented. Meaning, with these scores, nobody can look and go 527 and realize that's marketing marketing qualified lead that needs to trigger an automated work flow that gives them 17 emails over the next 365 days to keep top of mind or to push them higher into the lead score to when they're an SQL that automatically happens at 727. And now something else happens, and by the way, don't even get me started on the fact when I say action oriented, I don't mean for the actual contact.

I mean for the marketer or the sales rep in the company. They know here's the action that I need to take because they're in this phase. And by the way, in a little bit, I'll talk about radar research revenue because that's 3 dope phases to think about when you're actually doing proper lead scoring.

Liz Moorhead: I'd never think about asking you to get started with anything, George, ever. No. That's fantastic, though. And I really love the point you made about teams because, Devin, I know in talking with you, you also really like to think about this as a cross functional effort, but that's the biggest mistake people make. They don't do it.

Can you talk to me about that?

Devyn Bellamy: Yeah. That's actually one of the reasons why I think there are a lot of companies that should not do lead scoring is because their level of cross functionality within the organization isn't mature enough to handle something like lead scoring. Lead scoring is a team effort that requires, if not an SLA, then at the very least, an understanding of what a good lead is from every step of the way and for people to come to a consensus about that. It can't just be marketing, I'm gonna put in my set of numbers. Sales, I'm gonna put in my set of numbers.

Service, I'm gonna put in my set of numbers because in case you forgot, the sale doesn't end once the person gives you their money. So with that in mind, you have to be able to just sit down and come together and build on it, and then come back to it, iterate, ship new decisions, rinse, wash, repeat. It's not like George was saying earlier, it's like when you just set it and walk away. The only thing that's worse than setting it and and walking it away is setting it, walking away, and then blaming the tool for not doing its job because you didn't know how to use it.

Liz Moorhead: I always find that so infuriating because you said something there about establishing SLAs between teams because there's some crazy stat out there where b to b sales reps say only 27% of marketing qualified leads are actually qualified in any way, shape, or form. And to your point, what you just said, Devin, HubSpot is not going to help you if mommy and daddy are fighting. Like, that's not gonna fix anything. It's not gonna help you establish norms and responsibilities. Like, if we're gonna do all this work to get you these leads and get them to a score we all agree upon, how long is it gonna take you to follow-up with them?

What's that gonna look like? Who's responsible if the deal falls through the cracks? There's something that, George, you say a lot, which is you need to understand that HubSpot needs to wrap around your business. I don't know if you guys have ever seen that cartoon where it's like there's a stick figure standing there with a stick poking something going, come on. Do something.

And that's how people treat HubSpot. Why can't you fix all of our dysfunction as a company? Just make us money, and it's crazy. Do it. Do the thing.

So talk to me about radar research and revenue, George. So you're saying we talked a lot about what what is wrong with most lead scoring strategy development. Tell me about these three phases you're talking about that puts people on the right path.

George B.Thomas: Yeah. It's interesting because there really is 2 major veins that I like to open up to the minds of people when I first start to do things on training with lead scoring. One of them is radar research revenue, which, by the way, could be an entire, probably, 5 week master class that would be put out for somebody who wanted to pay money and learn all the things you can do with this. But from a overarching, just standpoint, there has to be a mindset wrapped around the numbers that are being spit out in this property that is a score field. And so if you have sat down whiteboard, Excel spreadsheet, whatever, and figured out here are the numbers, what do they mentally mean?

When I say radar, what it is, it's allowing the person who has been made the contact owner of that lead originally know that there's been enough actions that this person should be on their radar. They don't really need to take any actions yet, but they should familiar with the name John Smith or Betty White or whoever it is because they're starting to churn. The butter's starting to rise to the top, but it doesn't mean let's go for the jugular yet. Like, just chill. We're letting you know something's happening.

We're cooking something up for you. Then when we get to research, now they've actually done a couple of different things. Maybe they've attended a couple webinars, downloaded a white paper, whatever it is, but they've reached the score, and now they're in research mode. Now research mode could mean 2 different things. If it's marketing doing the research, it's we're sending out a survey, a poll, we're getting them to fill out a form with special questions, or research if it's the sales team's job.

It's they're literally going out and doing research. They're looking at the website. They're looking at social platforms. Connecting with them on LinkedIn. Whatever.

But now you're doing research. You're actively trying to find the information that you don't have in your CRM through the processes they've gone before. And then revenue, it's a fall through the cracks thing. Literally, we create an email with anybody who does radar research revenue that sends to the contact owner, the sales rep that says, hey. By the way, John Smith has a score of blah blah blah.

That means we should have generated revenue with them yesterday. Try to schedule a sales call as soon as possible. And on that email, we give them a reverse engineered lead sheet. The last page they viewed was, their areas of interest are, their phone number is, their email is, like, all the information, by the way, because we've sat down with sales and marketing and said, hey. What are the 7 to 10 pieces of information you need before you send a sales email or pick up a call for a sales call?

Because we're gonna deliver that you in the revenue email that we push out. So mindset. Right? Radar. Oh, something cool's happening.

Research. Oh, time to get my hands dirty. Revenue. Hey. You missed them.

Catch them before they walk out the door.

Liz Moorhead: So I'm loving all of that, and then I'm just imagining somewhere out there in the ether, somewhere in the great inbound universe. There's somebody listening to this who maybe they just got HubSpot for the first time or they're just thinking about dipping their toe in the pool of lead scoring, and they're going, that all sounds amazing and terrifying. And I'm wondering if there's some walking that I should be doing before I'm running. So, Max, I'm really curious to get your thoughts on this. Should I be opening up lead scoring first or are there other things I should be doing first?

Max Cohen: You really need to nail everything else before you even have stuff to score. I've literally had people that have said, alright. The only thing I wanna work on is lead scoring. And I go, great. Show me all your content.

Show me all these places that people are engaging with you. Show me all these things that you're doing that you wanna be able to score. And literally none of that existed. And it was like, what are we even doing?

George B.Thomas: Well, you have to you have

Max Cohen: to score

George B.Thomas: your contact.

Max Cohen: Because that's a 1,000 points right off the bat. Right? If you fill it out, it's a 1,002. Anyway, so, like, honestly, the thing is just like, you really need to be like nailing down your content strategy and have all these different ways that people can actually interact with you.

George B.Thomas: And then you need

Max Cohen: to have, like, some sort of research that you're doing to really establish that there is any value in people engaging in those ways. Because again, lead scoring is not a perfect science. High lead score is not gonna tell you someone's gonna buy. All it's gonna tell you is how engaged they are. Use that information how you see fit.

But again, not all engagement is created equal. Right? Someone looking at pricing page is a lot different than someone looking at your contact us page. Someone looking at a blog post that is intended for decision stage potential buyers is a lot different than someone looking at a blog post that's like, here's our 5 favorite Netflix series that got cancelled. It's totally different.

And again, if the content's not there, and you haven't seen how people interact with it, and does that actually lead to people having a higher likelihood to wanna talk to sales or purchase something or whatever, then you don't really have any information on how you should be scoring that stuff. So you really need to be nailing down everything else and actually have this journey that you can score these different engagement points on. And then you have to let that run and be out there in a in the wild. So you can see how people actually interact with it, and does it actually lead to some sort of value that we wanna measure through a number. Otherwise, you're just wasting a bunch of time.

So it's one thing.

George B.Thomas: It's interesting. Hang on. Let me throw something out there. In the lieu of what Max is talking about and historically hearing people talk about content being the fuel for your inbound marketing success, all of a sudden my brain was like, oh, snap. That means lead scoring is your speedometer.

Like, literally, if content is the fuel for your inbound success, the amount of speed or the amount of number or the the way it's gonna raise or lower, because God knows use negative attributes. Anyway, the way it's gonna raise or lower over time, that's, like, the speedometer of if your content and people are engaging with your content and and the whole kind of system.

Devyn Bellamy: I don't want people to get overly excited about a tool that they might not be ready for. The thing is is that lead scoring is for people who are inundated with leads and need to see, like, okay. I I need to make sense of all this because our marketing and sales and service teams are crushing it so hard. I I need to be able to, in some way, find a way to prioritize or be alerted to these people's actions, and it's not just a sea of names and faces. I need a way to disqualify people who are not good fits so I can better prioritize my team's time.

If those aren't issues that you're running into, like if you measure your leads weekly or monthly and not daily, this might not be a good fit for you. Lead scoring is, like Max said, it's the last step. When you've got everything else figured out and it's firing on all cylinders, then the need for lead scoring will present itself. If you're just trying to dial in and really put your existing numbers under a you're doing, you're you're focusing on the wrong thing. You need to open the floodgates and then use lead scoring as some kind of net to help you prioritize, not necessarily trying to squeeze blood from a turnip because that ain't gonna happen.

George B.Thomas: So, Liz, I know you wanna get back to lead scoring, but I have to just throw something out here real quick. Because if we're ever under a zombie attack, I'm going to wherever Devon lives, because Devon is the only guy that I know can calmly knock the shit out of something. Like, no other person ever does. Like, the way he started that, he's like, it's real peaceful and calm and also, like, bam. Like, he just smacks you in the face with the fact that you don't even anyway.

Liz Moorhead: That's exactly where I was going because honestly, what I was gonna say, Devin, you remind me a lot of when people ask me, like, so what do you think about Inception? Like, it's fine. And then they get real disappointed, but it's amazing. It's the greatest movie of all time. It's fine.

I probably won't watch it again. And they are just like, what? And they lose their minds, and people are over here going, like, lead scoring, lead scoring. What is it? Can I have it?

And you're like, it's amazing, and you may not. Devin, here's what I wanna challenge you on, though. I wanna challenge you for a second, and this is me as the process person. It's very easy to sit here and say, you gotta earn lead scoring. You gotta wait until you're like, oh my god.

Look at all these leads. Blah blah blah. And that reminds me of people who say, well, we're too small. We're agile. We don't need to document processes.

And then they hit a growth inflection point and all of a sudden the fact that they never took the time to document anything when they had time, when they had the ability to get together, when they weren't putting out fires, that's when they decide to go build processes? No. So my question to you is, there's gotta be some sort of inflection point before the cup runneth over. And when do you know you've hit it? When do you know this is the right time to proactively get ahead and actually start thinking about lead scoring at all?

Devyn Bellamy: Well, the cop out answer is that it's different for everybody. The thing is that when you're reaching a point that you are experiencing a significant growth in your pipeline from the marketing end, and you've determined that it's not just vanity metrics, there's something to this, then at that point, it's definitely good to start evaluating. But at the end of the day, being process oriented off the jump when you're trying to eat, that is difficult. Not to say that it's impossible. I am a one person shop, and I have documentation on everything I do just because I'm weird like that.

But there are higher priority things than getting your lead scoring in order. There's stuff that you just need to get done first. And because at the end of the day, it's about the energy that you're using in order to accomplish these goals, You're not going to get as much return with the amount of energy it takes to correctly do lead scoring as it does to correctly do content marketing and to come up with an editorial calendar and to make sure your conversion paths are tight and to make sure your branding's consistent. You you gotta do that first. You gotta make sure your house is clean before you start trying to invite people in.

George B.Thomas: So I don't think it has to be, this first thing. I think it should maybe the mindset should be a do this with this. Because here's the thing. And and again, I'm pulling from historical, like, onboarding, trainings. And when you have somebody that has a bunch of stuff and you go into the conversation of lead scoring, they do what every other human does when you have a metric butt ton of work.

You go, oh, that's a lot. And then what do they do? They put it off, and they put it off. And it never becomes important because the hurdle that you had to leap to make it happen at first because you waited so long to get there is, like, nah. Maybe it's not as important as we think.

But if you're doing it along the way, like, it's just part of okay. We did this. Now we do this. And and maybe it's you're only putting the score portion in there, and you're not really worried about the activation portion until we get down the road, and we know what it means, and we can tell people what to do or ask them to do during those time frames. But I just get nervous for the people who would listen to this episode and go, oh, well, I can put it off for 6 months.

And then they look, and then in 6 months, they got, like, 13 campaigns and, like, 270 things that they have to score. And they're, like, no. I I can tell you I'm a one man shop. As we're putting out content, I'm figuring out what I wanna score things. I'm figuring out what I wanna put in place.

I'm figuring out how in the future I might diagnose what's happening in the system. Now granted, I get it. I have 10 years of HubSpot experience, 10 years of teaching people how to do this. But if I could just wave a magic wand, I would say it's not a and or, but it's a a with. Yes.

Get the content right. Yes. Get your content strategy correct. Yes. Get it scheduling, but don't leave it lay.

Don't, like, don't sleep on lead scoring, man.

Max Cohen: Don't turn it into a massive project down the line. Yeah. I think it's an interesting way of looking at it and it it kinda speaks to the idea of like, listen, don't take lead scoring too seriously. You're not gonna get it perfect the first time and you're not gonna get it perfect ever. Sorry.

It's never gonna be perfect because marketing's not perfect. And if you ever think you're striving for perfection on lead scoring, you're spending your time very unwisely. But I love the idea of building a framework as you go and adding to it as you because you have to. When you create more content, let's say you go and build a whole bunch of pieces of content made for the decision stage, and you gotta say like, hey, if they specifically read this stuff, like, maybe that's a little bit of a better indicator of how it get then sure. Yeah.

Keep doing that. But again, the stuff has to be there to score if you're gonna score at all. I think the other thing to kinda realize too is depending on the flavor of inbound that you would like to consume, you might not even be doing lead scoring at all. But, Cherry, you might not even be doing lead scoring at all. If you're the gate everything and and create these, like, wonderful engagement experiences and track everything that everybody's doing and and taking that whole more classical route, Yeah.

You you probably get a lot out of lead scoring if you do it the right way, if you have good utility behind it. But if you're more of the in the world of, like, demand gen, ungate everything, don't track what people are doing until they're really in that decision stage. You might have less need for it, or you might be hyper focusing that engagement once it is tracked in the decision stage. Right? And that's okay too.

Just make sure there's some utility behind it.

Liz Moorhead: So let's let's go to a beautiful utopia where I have gone to lead scoring court and asked judge Devon, am I worthy or am I wanting? And he said wanting, but also worthy. You may you may pass. And I said, fantastic. George said leave it lay.

But what does that mean? No. I'm just kidding. So now that we're getting into lead scoring strategy, let's talk about lead scoring implementation. I've leaved it lay.

I have been found worthy, not wanting. What does great lead scoring implementation look like and what doesn't it look like?

Max Cohen: Okay.

Max Cohen: I have strong feelings on this. If you are gonna do lead scoring, and and George kinda talked about this earlier, you have to fundamentally separate the idea of good fit and how engaged someone is. So if we're literally talking about how to set it up in HubSpot, using those scoring properties that you can put on companies, contacts, deals, things like that, actually build lead scoring. An easy thing you can do is just build one called engagement level, put positive things that people can do that measure some sort of positive level of engagement, start getting in there, refine it over time, make sure you communicate what that score means to anyone who's gonna use it. Great.

But then you need something to pair with that. Because saying someone is engaged and saying that they are an actual good fit, whatever that looks like for you, are 2 fundamentally separate things. And the worst thing you can do is try to measure those 2 fundamentally separate things using the same metric, same number. So for example, if you are measuring, like, demographic and firmographic fit about a contact and how they're, like, engaging with you. If I just see a number at the end of the day, I have no idea if that means, oh, this person's a good fit or, oh, this person's engaged.

So I had this problem a long time ago. We would look at lead scores and they'd be high and we'd call someone and it turns out that they were not a great fit, because they were like a student, but they were doing a ton of research. So they got they looked really engaged. On top of that, people had high lead scores, but it was because they were really good fit. They didn't really engage with our content at all.

That lead score didn't really tell us much when it was like doing both of those things. The biggest thing that I tell people to do or the the light that I try to bring people to is that you don't have to use a scoring field to lead score. Lead score doesn't have to be a number. Right? So when we think about something like measuring fit, the most basic version I tell people to do is so it is like, listen, go build yourself a drop down field and name that drop down field fit question mark, and literally have the options be good fit, mid fit, bad fit, or whatever you want it to be.

You you come up with your own scale. And then what you can do is you can build workflows that say, if somebody meets the criteria of a good fit, set that fit property to good fit. If it's mid, set it to mid. If it's bad, set it to bad. And what does that do?

Well, now if I'm a sales rep and I get a good lead sent to me or I get a lead assigned to me, I can look and see, are they a good fit and separate that from the idea of how engaged are they. Now, if I am looking at that engagement score that I create, some one at some point would have needed to tell me what the scale is. How do I know if a 100 is good or bad? How do I know if a 1,000 is good or bad? Is the negative number bad?

Is it not bad? That has to be communicated. You have to come up with the model. You have to figure that out. But I would set it up that way, and I have some hacks later.

We can talk about that. Let me make that even better, but I'm gonna shut Yeah.

George B.Thomas: I gotta jump in here. Because by the way, I I whispered I have

Max Cohen: a property for that.

George B.Thomas: It's called lead status, people. It's in HubSpot by default. I'm just gonna throw that out there. Anyway, I have to back up for a second because I need everybody to understand that this whole lead scoring conversation that we're having is a flea on the dog's butt. Because the conversation we're really having is the dog is quality leads and team process around quality leads.

Lead scoring is just a tiny fractional piece of that. So what I love to do is you're right. It has to be customizable card, and you can call it whatever you want. But the magic matrix that I love to look at is the persona property, the life cycle stage property, the lead status property, and HubSpot score. If you give me all 4 of those properties together, I can tell you if I should go home and take a nap or get on the call right now.

Because I'm not calling Sammy the student, but I'm calling CEO Charlie who has a score of 526, is a good fit, and is a sales qualified lead. Boom. I'm just saying.

Liz Moorhead: Devin, talk to me about what we should be doing at the implementation stage. Again, assuming someone is worthy, assuming you have anointed someone worthy of lead scoring, what are we doing?

Devyn Bellamy: Making it a working process. The biggest thing is that you don't just get together one time and then make the by measuring engagement, like, overall. And then, eventually, you can drill down into the various aspects of, where they are in their buyer's journey, or if they're looking at decision stage content, or if you're waiting a particular campaign over the others because you found that one's one's highly engaging. But it doesn't have to be a monster process to start because you've built iteration into your process. It's one thing if you're gonna try and do it right the first time and walk away, you're gonna go down a rabbit hole.

It's gonna give you nightmares. If you just start with a small number of values and build out as you meet and the values themselves, though, they don't have to be in the plus 50, plus 100. You you don't have to have giant numbers. Like, it's the highest scoring football game ever or something. You can just keep it simple and build from there.

Liz Moorhead: I like when people listen. What are some great ways to hack HubSpot in order to do lead scout scoring well? Like, what are some of those great hacks that you would like to lean on?

George B.Thomas: So I feel like this is the moment and I know, Max and Devin, you both have something to say. But I wanna say this is the moment where I hope people realize that it HubSpot gives you the capability instead of tools that you can build a system around that score property. And what I mean by that is I love to teach people about things like informationally qualified. How many pages of the website have they read? 10, 20, 30?

What's the average page views? What does that actually mean? Well, does it mean that you have to educate them when you get on the call, or could they actually sell your stuff to you because they've read a 120 pages of the website? Course, barring that you've done content marketing and you have a 120 pages, because like my friend Marcus Sheridan says, you can't ask him to read your website twice. That never works out.

But so there's 4 pillars that I like to pay attention to, and I teach people again. In this whole radar research revenue thing, we talk about 4 pillars. And so realizing HubSpot gives you a list tool. They give you an email tool. They give you a workflows tool that you can build an entire system around 4 pillars.

1st pillar is persona. Positive and negative personas. Go back and listen to a previous episode that we did on Hub Heroes podcast because we knocked it out of the park what you should be doing there. Informationally qualified. How well do they know the thing that you do?

Engagement qualified. Are they clicking on your call to actions? Are they opening your emails? Are they clicking in your emails? Are they filling out your forms?

Are they doing the things that you want them to do from an engagement standpoint? And then the 4th pillar is time, recency. Is it in, like, 3 years ago? Because that junk is cold. Or is it, like, 3 hours or 3 days ago?

Because that's hot, Depending on the other metrics that are around it. Think how can I use HubSpot to build the system around what I'm trying to do, quality leads AKA part of lead scoring, and start to think in these four pillars of information, engagement, persona, and time?

Max Cohen: I think it's a a lot of the things that we said. Establish the utility of, like, what the score is being used for. Communicate to people what it means. So if someone's actually looking at it, what do you do with it? What What story does it tell you?

Given that you can only tell the story in numbers or another property if you do that good fit method. What I think of what's the basic utility of lead scoring is, alright sales, here are a bunch of leads that you got today that need to reach out. What's one surface level basic way that you can prioritize them? I don't know. Work top to bottom on who's the most engaged.

There's other things you should probably be looking at it, but if you had to, like, break it down to who's the most engaged, sure. Use that engage score. Great. Wonderful. You don't really need to know what's high, what's low, as long as you can filter your view to show you the high numbers at the top low about it, but great.

That's like level 1. Alright? I think level 2, you start kinda getting it, like, alright. How can I use this a little bit more smartly as a marketer? And a lot of times, people struggle with when should we send the sales rep after the customer.

Because we can't always as much as we want to and as much as we should, wait until a customer raises their hand to say I'd like to talk to a salesperson. Sometimes people could get be very engaged with you. They could also be a very good fit, but they haven't raised their hand yet. So a cool way that you can kinda use the idea of having an engagement score and a fit score is you could build automation or workflows for example, let's say, hey, if their engagement score is above a certain threshold that you've defined and they are a good fit, and they haven't filled out any of our forms that are the hand raises that get them in touch with sales, maybe we preemptively assign them to a salesperson, give them a little task that says, this person hasn't asked for anything yet. However, they've been perusing our content quite a bit.

They seem like a really good fit. Perhaps, you should maybe reach out with, like, a light little educational introduction versus,

Max Cohen: you wanna

Max Cohen: buy this? Right? You know, so you can still assign it, but you can assign it with context. What else can you do? Well, maybe this would be a good reason to kick off a slightly more, I don't wanna say aggressive, but more pointed decision stage email nurture.

If they're a good fit and they've been hella all over your content, maybe we kind of have earned the right here to say,

Max Cohen: did you know that we sell something? You you can get a demo if you want.

Max Cohen: You kinda know that, like, alright, I think I have a good enough reason to maybe, like, position my product here, and just, like, let them know lightly that, like, we do stuff. Right? Or send them to the bottom of the funnel nuke up with emails, whatever. But don't do that. Don't do that.

But, like, you can start you've kinda earned the right a little bit to start some of the decision stage communication.

George B.Thomas: Max's takeaway for everybody listening to this episode is send us

Max Cohen: a box

George B.Thomas: panel and nuke them with emails.

Liz Moorhead: Nicest way possible. I understand you've unsubscribed from everything we've ever sent for you, but Yep. Would you like to schedule a demo with us and be our friend?

Max Cohen: Yep. But I think there's there's an important lesson there in, like, assigning leads with context. Right? Like, in that situation, it's extremely important to say, listen, these people didn't ask to talk to you. But we think that you should pursue them.

But, you know, act accordingly.

Liz Moorhead: No. That's you should apologize. Apologize again.

Max Cohen: No worries.

Liz Moorhead: I'm kidding. Devin, will you sign up for my friend demo?

George B.Thomas: Oh, man. It's getting all emotional.

Liz Moorhead: Devin, tell me one way I can mess up lead scoring in HubSpot.

Devyn Bellamy: Too many high value numbers. You can assign a number, numeric value to an action. And the problem is is that someone can say it's like, oh, that's a plus 20 action. That's a plus 30 action. And then the next thing you know is you're measuring everything against that action.

And it's like, well, if that was a plus 30, this one must be a plus 40. And it can get out of hand very quickly. I like to use single digit numbers wherever I can. My goal to simplify things for my sales team is that I never want my lead score to be more than a 100. And so what I will do is a, use negative attributes, which are negative actions someone might take that you would make them think they're not as good of a fit, like engagement over time, something along those lines.

But I like to keep it simple. And then one of the things that I do is I go back and reevaluate all of the numbers that I've put in. And is it tedious and annoying to some people? But to me, the idea of basically having to constantly adjust the curve and understand that, well, this action that was a 12 before, now in the grand scheme of things might seem more like it is a 9. And that's what helps get my lead scores from getting out of control.

But also, it all helps me it encourages me to go back and reevaluate whether or not there are some things that even belong in the, tributes in the first place. Because there might have been something else super excited about, which I found out later doesn't matter. But at the same time, there's something that I'm seeing a trend in my good fit customers who are closing, and so I need to bake that trend in my lead scoring.

Liz Moorhead: I love that. Alright. We're coming to the end of our journey. Also, emotionally prepare yourselves, gentlemen. I have a great lead scoring related secret question for after this.

But whether I am just getting started with lead scoring or I have been not listening to Max or Devon and have been doing it a long time even though I probably shouldn't have been, what is the one thing if I remember nothing else from this episode, what is the one thing I need to remember and why?

George B.Thomas: Yeah. For me, go figure. It comes down to educate your team. If they're not in the know of what they need to know, then lead scoring is a no. I'm just gonna throw that out there.

And then the other thing that I'll add to that is once you've educated them, make it all action oriented. There needs to be things to be done based on what is being seen. So educate and action, or you could do it with ease. Right? Educate and execute.

Educate and execute.

Max Cohen: I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna cop out and use, Simon Sinek's phrase

Max Cohen: Why is that a cop out?

George B.Thomas: He made millions off of that. Well, maybe not millions.

Max Cohen: Because I didn't sure. I mean yeah. I didn't I didn't come up with it. But, like, it is another one of those things in HubSpot and inbound or whatever tools you use, it doesn't matter. If you're gonna do a lead scoring, there needs to be a really good why behind it because it can take a lot of work, it can confuse a lot of people, it can really waste a lot of time and money unless if it doesn't have a a need, if it's not solving something, why are you doing it?

Devyn Bellamy: Well, I don't know. I just wanted to point out something that Mac said earlier that I think ties into that as far as its purpose is concerned. Lead scoring shouldn't exist in a vacuum. Lead scoring is not a stand alone thing. It should trigger automation.

It should trigger information. It should trigger action. It shouldn't just be an arbitrary value.

George B.Thomas: Yeah. So I'm gonna go with that a little bit as well because where my brain went, Max, with what you're saying is this is the I I'm dang on it. I tried to go a whole episode without saying this is where my brain goes dang on it.

Liz Moorhead: Check.

Max Cohen: Anyway I have been waiting.

George B.Thomas: And, anyway, this is where my brain was going with that comment is that first diagnose if there's a need. And then if there is a need, this is one of the ultimate places where you slow down to speed up and you come up with a plan. You don't just hop in HubSpot and start punching numbers in. You get your teams together. You get a whiteboard.

You get a lead scoring matrix Excel spreadsheet, whatever, and you map it out, and then you go in to HubSpot and do it. So is there a need? And then have a plan.

Max Cohen: Also, real quick. I'm selling a couple hats that are scientifically proven to improve your lead scoring skills. I think specifically RevOps wizard and RevOps Overlord adds a plus 5 lead scoring intelligence stat to your to your brain when you put it on. So shop.matchtakingcom.com.

Liz Moorhead: I love how when I say tell me one thing, I get 17. It's almost as if I get yelled at for wrangling you or not wrangling you, and then you don't listen. Also by the swag that happens.

Max Cohen: Snapback season.

Liz Moorhead: It's Snapback season, baby. You have to have no. But anyway.

Max Cohen: There is not.

Liz Moorhead: Are you ready for the secret question?

Max Cohen: Oh, I don't know.

George B.Thomas: Let's let's go. To do with the record button? God. I hope not.

Max Cohen: No. Oh, it's still on. Hey. It's still on.

Liz Moorhead: You know, George, I wasn't gonna bring it up.

George B.Thomas: That's next episode. Next episode.

Liz Moorhead: Next episode? Okay. Alright. Let's pretend for a moment that each of us has a lead scoring model deep within our hearts for friendship. Here is what I wanna know.

You have a choice. You can tell me what gives someone a 1,000 plus points in their lead scoring model as your potential friend or negative 1,000 points as your potential friend. Only one of those.

George B.Thomas: Oh, we can only do 1?

Liz Moorhead: Fine. You can do both.

George B.Thomas: Oh, yes.

Liz Moorhead: Because you know what happened? You ding dongs would be like, well, I know I was only supposed to choose 1, but I'm gonna give you 7. So yes, let's go with 2. You can do both.

Max Cohen: I wish I had time to think of a funny response to this because I feel like later on today, I'm gonna be like, oh, I should've said this.

Liz Moorhead: Make a hat about it.

Max Cohen: Funny, but you can't you can't think on your feet.

George B.Thomas: Okay. I'll give you some time. And then maybe Devon, and then you can go. Because for me, this is actually pretty darn easy. As soon as the question was being stated, I, like, thought of both of them.

So on the positive lead scoring that I know that you're 1,000 points to being my friend is if I see that you are a blessing bomber, if you are a giver, if you are putting into the world, right, if you're just like there to make people smile, leaving them better than you met them. Like, in any way, it could be financially, spiritually, emotionally. You're just you're bombing the world with blessings. You get a 1,000 plus points, and we're just gonna hang out. We're gonna smoke cigars, drink whiskey, and sit by my fire pit, like, without a doubt.

On the other side, selfishness. If you if you are selfish and it's all about you and but, like, you're gonna conquer the world, and you're gonna just, like, demolish everybody around you to get there or whatever it looks like, then it's like, nope. I I literally have a saying, by the way, because it's like hashtag no douchebags allowed. Like, that's that's part of my code. Like, nope.

Not hanging out with douchebags. Negative thousand on the friend score.

Liz Moorhead: If anybody wants a glimpse into the dynamic of my friendship with George, my answers are somewhat different. You get a positive 1,000 if you appreciate the glory, the splendor, the wonder that is the national treasure, Nicolas Cage, because that's where my priority is. And you get a negative 1,000 if you think Sofia Coppola did anything except ruin Godfather 3 with her presence. Fabulous director, incredible filmmaker, Godfather 3, what could have been? I am so violently offended at the existence of Godfather 3.

Only reason I keep watching it is because Andy Garcia when he was young was super hot, like the most hot. I know. I know, George, you agree. I know you agree. Agree.

So George is there with, kindness and and humanity, and I'm here with Nicolas Cage and and godfather 3 takes. Devin, save us from ourselves.

Devyn Bellamy: Sure. Well, I I guess I'll go in in the middle. I've never met a hardcore Deadpool fan that I didn't like. I don't know what it is about us. Like, I remember when I was last time I was in Boston, I was coming up with the hotel, and the lady said, nice shirt.

And I saw she was wearing a Deadpool shirt. I was like, yeah. Nice shirt. I said it matches my socks. And she's like, yeah.

It matches my tattoo. And it was the most awesome Deadpool tattoo I had ever seen. She and I had, like, a moment there. She is, like, the greatest human being I've ever met. I don't care.

She is just she it was great. It was it was a wonderful moment. So plus a1000 if you're into and not just movie Ryan Reynolds' Deadpool, though I do love him, dearly. Specifically, if you're into comic book Deadpool, especially first version Deadpool. You know

Max Cohen: what would have been funny is if after she showed you her tattoo, you said, wow. Cool tattoo. I named my son.

Devyn Bellamy: Oh, wait. I didn't get my negative. I gotta give my negative. My negative is duplicitous.

Liz Moorhead: Beautiful delivery.

Devyn Bellamy: Duplicitous people. Beautiful. Hot or cold, lukewarm, I will spit you out. Oh. Yeah.

I knew George would like that. I knew George would

George B.Thomas: like that. That's that's, like, close to maybe the first biblical reference on the Hot Wheels podcast. I'm just gonna throw that out there. 2nd?

Devyn Bellamy: 2nd? Threw it out in the first episode. I do it for for every now and then. Yeah.

Liz Moorhead: Alright, Max. You're the last guy at Bennigan's weighing mozzarella sticks or potato skins pony up.

Max Cohen: Oh my god.

Devyn Bellamy: I I would get stage fright after that. I would freeze up after that level of a toss, but Max

George B.Thomas: Did Max just hang up? No. I'm I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

Max Cohen: First thing first thing

Max Cohen: first thing's first. I I still don't know what Aloysius means or duplicitous, so someone's gonna have to help me.

Liz Moorhead: If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

Max Cohen: It's like a c job. It's like a c job.

Max Cohen: Google. So Yes.

Devyn Bellamy: Yes. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.

Max Cohen: Plus a 1,000. I'm just like on I'm just a I'm a big hugger. I like a big hug. I'll hug everybody. Just like give me a hug.

You like hugs? That's cool. It's not weird. I just like hugging everybody. So that's always really good in my book.

Negative 1,000. If you're someone who overcooks your eggs, negative 10,000. Oh. Yeah. No.

It's just you just eggs. You just can't can't overcook your eggs. Just Damn. Just wrong. Well, no.

Over the part is fun.

Devyn Bellamy: I'm sorry.

Max Cohen: But I'm just like, if you're like for example, if I make it a breakfast sandwich over hard. That's okay. Because I don't want I I do love I do love a yolky sandwich, but sometimes I need to I need to bring it somewhere or I'm wearing a shirt that I can't risk a little bit of yolk. I I I I I I'll do over hard. But if that's on a plate, Devon, we're gonna have words,

Max Cohen: man. We're gonna

Max Cohen: if you're eating that with a fork, bro, we're gonna fight. It's on-site, my man. But I love you, though. I don't give you a hug after, so it's all good.

Devyn Bellamy: There there's a reason behind my overhard, though.

George B.Thomas: I gotta have me some

Devyn Bellamy: I I used to work at a very sketchy IHOP.

Max Cohen: You don't

Devyn Bellamy: even need to be sketchy.

Max Cohen: They used

Devyn Bellamy: grade b eggs. Didn't even know that grade b eggs were a thing. They used grade b eggs and then for their scrambled mix, they they didn't scramble the eggs, they had scrambled mix, they would pour old mix in the new mix and completely ruin the pasteurization, and that IHOP has since closed. So Thank God. I don't mind.

Max Cohen: Unless it should.

Liz Moorhead: Yeah. What a shock. But I am blown away.

Devyn Bellamy: Yeah. Ever ever since b eggs and grade b eggs, and and that that's why I have to do overall.

Max Cohen: Bro, let me make you a let me

Devyn Bellamy: make you a let

Max Cohen: me make you a let me make you

Max Cohen: a let

Devyn Bellamy: me make

Max Cohen: you a that egg. Dead. I will blow your mind.

Liz Moorhead: So Yeah.

Devyn Bellamy: But if I'm drunk, it's a completely different story. Give me a Oh, well, there

Max Cohen: you go.

George B.Thomas: Burger all day. Drunk or sober, man. I love this and right Wait. Wait.

Max Cohen: What about a grill?

George B.Thomas: I'd I just love to dip my toast.

Max Cohen: What about a grill? Yeah. The bagels. Oh.

George B.Thomas: Oh, yeah. Yeah. We're going to weird places.

Devyn Bellamy: We have gone so far off topic, and it's beautiful.

Liz Moorhead: We started at lead scoring. We've ended with war crimes, the yolkening, dippy eggs. And that says to me, it's time to go. Thank you so much for joining us this week. Please leave a review.

It made everyone uncomfortable when we started talking about griddled bagels, so you do not need to mention that in the review. But if you would like to mention friendship, your feelings on Nicolas Cage, your thoughts on lead scoring, or if you're one of those people wondering, but wait, can I lead score a company? You can, but that's a different episode about ABM and not the topic for today's discussion. And with that, gentlemen

George B.Thomas: Oh, yeah.

Liz Moorhead: Get out. You you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

George B.Thomas: I'm home though.

Max Cohen: Please leave. I'm ready.

Liz Moorhead: Why couldn't you just play along? Why do you have to make it awkward? Everyone hang up. Goodbye. I don't

George B.Thomas: wanna. Okay, hub heroes. We've reached the end of another episode. Will lord lack continue to loom over the community, or will we be able to defeat him in the next episode of the hub heroes podcast? Make sure you tune in and find out in the next episode.

Make sure you head over to the hub heroes dot com to get the latest episodes and become part of the league of heroes. FYI, if you're part of the league of heroes, you'll get the show notes right in your inbox, and they come with some hidden power up potential as well. Make sure you share this podcast with a friend. Leave a review if you like what you're listening to, and use the hashtag, hashtag hub euros podcast on any of the socials, and let us know what strategy conversation you'd like to listen into next. Until next time, when we meet and combine our forces.

Remember to be a happy, helpful, humble human, and of course, always be looking for a way to be someone's hero.