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38 min read

HubSpot #INBOUND24 Preview: Early Sessions + Introvert Survival (HubHeroes, Ep. 80)

Time is an absolutely dumb thing. For example, it feels like yesterday β€” OK, maybe a month or to ago, if we're being realistic β€” that we all sat down and recapped HubSpot's #INBOUND23 event, including highlights like:

...and so much more.

But it wasn't a month or two ago. That was seven months ago. SEVEN. This mind-breaking fact was underscored for me early last week when HubSpot made its "first-look" sessions announcement for #INBOUND24. So, we're back, kiddos! Whether you're ready or not, it's time for us to start looking ahead to September for HubSpot's annual flagship event.

⏰ #INBOUND23 HubHeroes Time Machine:

To help kick off the #INBOUND24 party, we invited our friend Dan Moyle of Impulse Creative to join us on this week's pod. (Like George, Dan will be rocking the stage as an #INBOUND24 speaker.)

The HubHeroes Podcast-Dan-Moyle

Of course, our conversation features our collective excitement for the event. But Devyn also led a powerful micro-discussion about how INBOUND provides a friendly, empowering environment for introverts and neurodivergent individuals β€” folks who may feel intrigued by INBOUND, but may be nervous about whether or not it's an event they can truly enjoy.

πŸ”Ž Related: #INBOUND23 Recap for the Ages (Memories, Lessons, Announcements, + More)

Also, for those of you out there who think late April is way too early for us to be talking about an event in September, tune in. We talk about how now is the time to start preparing β€” your team, your "business case" arguments for your boss so they'll send you to the event, building your agenda, planning your travel, booking your hotels, and more. 

Do we still have a few hopes for reduced unsolicited sponsor content this year, based on what we've experienced in year's past? Heck yes. Are we still wondering when the heck we're going to be asked to do a live HubHeroes podcast recording at INBOUND? You betcha. Does George still have some strong words for you business owners and agency leaders out there who doubt the value of sending your people? 100% 

But that's what this episode is all about. 

Key Takeaways

  • We've come a long way since HubSpot's inaugural #INBOUND12 event. Check out this press release for a trip back in time to the very first INBOUND.
  • George's session topic about AI and content, as well as Dan's panel discussion on the HubSpot community (and its value).
  • Our anticipation and enthusiasm surrounding Inbound Inbound provides a friendly environment for introverts and neurodivergent individuals.
  • Why planning for #INBOUND24 matters right now, as well as what you should be booking and taking care of in these earlier months. If you think tickets will be around forever, you're wrong!
  • George's call-to-action for business owners and agency leaders about sending their folks to INBOUND, and why holding your people back from professional growth opportunities is a recipe for absolute disaster.
  • How we hope HubSpot improves the INBOUND experience over last year.
  • HubHeroes meetup potential, because we'll all be in Boston this year! 

And so much more ... 

Additional Resources

Full Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Liz Moorehead: Welcome back to another episode of Hub Heroes. George, you hold on a

[00:00:04] George B. Thomas: geez. Okay.

[00:00:05] Liz Moorehead: You hold on a second because I got to have a moment. I got to have a moment. Dan Moyle of Impulse Creative. How are you, buddy?

[00:00:14] Dan Moyle: hi, Liz

[00:00:18] Liz Moorehead: I had you later in the intro to say hi, but you know, we're going to start pulling you in early. So like George, I'm sorry to interrupt, but like we want Dan talking as soon

[00:00:26] George B. Thomas: Yeah, no, I agree. Um, really, we're having this, uh, episode because Dan said he would be here. And we want to talk about something that we all love. I actually was going to be kind of dumb for a second. I know that surprises you, but, um, I think I need to actually have the intro redone because that part, like, you know, the Devon part where it's like, Devon current, by the way, every time I hear that, I'm like, I want to just like, put it down for a second, be like, yep, still works at HubSpot and then like, put it back up, but I think we need to add like YouTube God into that somehow, like works at HubSpot and is currently a YouTube God somehow, some way we got, we got, probably got to add that.

[00:01:08] Liz Moorehead: Literally. What did I comment to you the other day, Devin? I wrote, I knew him when. Look at him go. Look at him soar. So like, okay. For the folks at home, Devin, can you give them the quick rundown of like your YouTube godness? Just quick. Just quick. What are you

[00:01:25] Devyn Bellamy: So I, I have in 2024 accepted the reality that I am in fact a YouTuber. Um, I have a 12 year old little brother who thinks I am the coolest person on earth. Um. Yeah, but, uh, yeah, I'm, I, I, I, uh, I have been on the spotlight preview, both internally, uh, for partners as well as customer facing on the YouTube channel.

Um, and of course the other product videos that are out right now, uh, and, uh, another podcast that I'm not on, but I am producing. Uh, is Good Morning Ecosystem, um, with, uh, Brian Garvey and Karen Ng. Our first guest was Yamini Rangan and, uh, we,

[00:02:15] George B. Thomas: Oh, you started out small for

[00:02:17] Devyn Bellamy: know, yeah, yeah. You know, just ease

[00:02:19] Liz Moorehead: Yeah, real just low hanging fruit. Nothing

[00:02:21] Devyn Bellamy: just softball, just, just softball.

Lob it. Um, but, uh, yeah. And now we also have a HubSpot, uh, ecosystem YouTube channel, um, that we are soft launching. And so you could actually go right now and just look up HubSpot partners or go to, uh, youtube. com forward slash at HubSpot partners and pull up the YouTube channel, catch all of the episodes of the morning ecosystem and see that I am not just a pretty face who knows a lot about HubSpot.

I also know a lot about video production too.

[00:02:58] George B. Thomas: Love it. Love it. Okay, now we can move on from Devin's God

[00:03:03] Liz Moorehead: have so many no, we have so many famous people. We have Devin YouTube God We have Dan Moyle here from impulse creative also speak George. You're you're the one and only George B. Thomas. You're You're, you're inbound in human form. And I'm Liz. I

[00:03:19] George B. Thomas: No, no. Don't do that. You're not allowed to do

[00:03:21] Liz Moorehead: I write words on the internet.

[00:03:23] George B. Thomas: You're Liz the content therapist that everybody needs to meet when they want their words to actually matter. There you go.

[00:03:31] Liz Moorehead: Oh, thanks, buddy.

[00:03:33] Devyn Bellamy: that on a brochure. That was awesome.

[00:03:36] Liz Moorehead: Thanks, buddy. Are you guys ready though? Cause I, Oh, I actually, you know what? I'm going to be honest. I'm not sure I'm ready. And here's why. No. Okay. I feel a little bit broken because I don't, I don't know where time is going. Right now, because, okay, it feels like only yesterday, George, Devin, we were sitting here recapping inbound 23, right?

We were talking about George, just slaying it in Boston with his entire family there for the first time ever. Devin killing it at partner day as the MC, Max and the great popsicle keeper for happily.

[00:04:13] George B. Thomas: Hi, Tony!

[00:04:15] Liz Moorehead: Hi, Tony and or John.

[00:04:17] George B. Thomas: not sure.

[00:04:17] Liz Moorehead: love you. We're not sure. I still, I'm still not sure to this day. And then there was me sitting at home, sobbing quietly into a microwaved burrito, totally in no way bitter about the fact that I wasn't there and that's fine.

But you know what? It wasn't yesterday when that happened. That was seven months ago. That was almost seven months ago. Um, probably not a big deal, except for the fact that here we are right now for the first inbound 24 preview episode. What?

[00:04:49] Dan Moyle: Time is weird. See,

[00:04:58] Liz Moorehead: Of HubSpot's annual inbound event.

It's happening September 18th through 20th in Boston. They've already dropped the first sneak peek of the agenda, but

[00:05:09] George B. Thomas: also hang on because if, if, if you're a partner and listening to this or watching this partner day on the 17th, so you'll want to pay attention to that might be part of your vacation or travel or inbound plans as well as a partner. So just add that piece in.

[00:05:27] Liz Moorehead: Well, don't hop off your mic just yet, George, because. There's a reason why we're excited. Dan Moyle is here. And I figured since this is a special reunion, the impulse boys, I'm going to, I'm going to turn it over to you for a minute before we get to

[00:05:40] George B. Thomas: Yeah, listen, listen, I have been blessed, um, and cursed, and I never talk about this other side of it, but I have been blessed to be able to speak at InBound since 2015. And cursed to watch a lot of my friends try to speak at Inbound or have spoken and then not be able to get back on the stage.

Um, year after year after year and, and when I saw a LinkedIn post. I did a freaking happy dance in my office. Nobody knows I did a happy dance, but I was like touchdown score, like whatever you can do when you're excited. This was me in the moment because I saw the fact that Dan being able to put out the announcement that he was coming back to the inbound stage.

That he was going to drop knowledge and value. And to me, I was like, yes, a good human being able to do good things at a great event, this is a spectacular day. And so at that moment, I was like, okay, when we talk about inbound, we got to see if Dan's available. I definitely want to somehow just bring this all back together because.

Again, as folks who used to work together and, and, and have these conversations of like, Hey, dude, what are you going to apply for this year? Like, what's your, like, I can remember strategy sessions of Dan sitting, uh, sitting together and be like, well, what if this description or like start the title with a number and like all of these things. And now we're here, and it's like, Dan Moyle, the one, the only, the man, the myth, the legend, hitting the inbound stage.

[00:07:20] Liz Moorehead: Yeah. Don't call to come back.

[00:07:22] George B. Thomas: he's already, he's been there. He's been there. So, I'm, I'm just excited. Super excited.

[00:07:26] Dan Moyle: this is the kind of, uh, hype squad you need in your life. I appreciate all of that, George.

[00:07:32] George B. Thomas: You bet, you bet.

[00:07:33] Liz Moorehead: My God. Wait, can I be like groupies for you guys speaking this year? Like in your rooms, like go George. It's all about the what it's all

[00:07:42] George B. Thomas: Oh, oh, it's all about the humans.

[00:07:46] Liz Moorehead: that's what's up. That's what's up. All right, guys, before we dig into our first preview episode, are you guys down for a little bit of trivia? You

[00:07:54] George B. Thomas: This scared the crap out of me, by the way, when you told me about this earlier. I tried to feverishly look for where you might have put the questions so I could, like,

[00:08:03] Liz Moorehead: Oh, hidden in an Apple notes document. You're not saying there's no scarier place than the notes app on a girl's phone. And that's where these trivia

[00:08:13] George B. Thomas: I am not competitive at all, but I was trying to cheat real hard. I was like, let me find these questions.

[00:08:19] Liz Moorehead: Well, let's start with an easy one. Shall we? Gentlemen, what was the first year of inbound?

[00:08:24] Dan Moyle: 2012.

[00:08:24] George B. Thomas: I think it was 2010. I think it was a HubSpot user group.

[00:08:29] Devyn Bellamy: I, was it 2008?

[00:08:31] George B. Thomas: Wait, what?

[00:08:32] Liz Moorehead: So the correct answer is Dan. The first official inbound conference was in 2012. And that's not even one of the trivia questions and we're already off to a great start. Good job guys. All right. I have three questions about the first inbound

[00:08:49] George B. Thomas: Oh, in 2012. Oh, let's.

[00:08:53] Liz Moorehead: Uh huh. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Sure. Buddy. Who was the musical guest that year?

You have three options. Was it A, Bismarcki, B, Cyndi Lauper, or C, Belinda Carlyle?

[00:09:08] Devyn Bellamy: Bismarck y.

[00:09:09] Dan Moyle: I'm going to go with Cindy, but I don't think that's right. Cause I think it was actually the, um, the, uh, the, the band that was made up of HubSpot employees.

[00:09:21] George B. Thomas: Yeah. That's the thing. I don't think you put the right answer

[00:09:25] Devyn Bellamy: Yeah, I think that's right. I think Dan's

[00:09:27] George B. Thomas: Cindy Lopper was years after this, because I literally remember seeing her like, do an acoustic version.

[00:09:33] Liz Moorehead: was also in 2012, unless they messed up the press release regarding the

[00:09:38] George B. Thomas: Oh,

[00:09:38] Liz Moorehead: or 2012 inbound conference. She was there. That's right. Your girl went digging in the original press release from PR Newswire. She

[00:09:48] Devyn Bellamy: Going with the

[00:09:48] Liz Moorehead: as the

[00:09:49] Devyn Bellamy: cut. Love

[00:09:50] George B. Thomas: okay, now, now, uh, now my brain is

[00:09:53] Liz Moorehead: Get off of that. No, no, no. You got, nope. You can't bring it up because the other questions are from there. You can't do that. No

[00:09:57] George B. Thomas: Oh, shoot. Well, no, but there's literally is if you type in Cindy Lauper inbound, there's a freaking YouTube number one search result a minute and 21 seconds. Cindy rocks the house in Boston. Son of a gun. Yeah,

[00:10:14] Liz Moorehead: was 2012.

[00:10:15] Dan Moyle: old, I'm old. I forget stuff. So I'll Liz, I defer to you a hundred

[00:10:18] George B. Thomas: okay. We're

[00:10:20] Liz Moorehead: Watch some HubSpotters going to come for me and be like, they released the press release. The press release was wrong. She actually couldn't make it. She stubbed her toe. I'm just telling you what I think what PR news I'm going with PR Newswire. All right. True or false. True or false. During their joint keynote, Dharmesh and Brian unveiled HubSpot 3, which promised making quote, Amazon like personalization.

Possible for all

[00:10:45] George B. Thomas: No, no. 2012 was the year of don't call me a customer. Call me human. One plus one equals three, I think, was later. I swear to God, if I'm

[00:10:55] Dan Moyle: that length that I think that was in 12.

[00:10:57] George B. Thomas: Oh my God! See, this is why I don't play these games. I knew I should have found the answers to these.

[00:11:05] Liz Moorehead: Ah, sneaky, sneaky. All right. Last question. We're all doing great.

[00:11:10] George B. Thomas: I refuse to answer this last one?

[00:11:13] Liz Moorehead: You're more than welcome to do whatever you'd

[00:11:14] George B. Thomas: I'll still give

[00:11:15] Liz Moorehead: this is your podcast.

[00:11:16] George B. Thomas: give it a shot, I guess. Devon, I haven't heard any answers from you, by the way. You're quietly just sitting there, like, Oh, oh,

[00:11:24] Devyn Bellamy: Oh, I've been wrong every time. I'm here.

[00:11:26] George B. Thomas: Oh, so we're, we're,

[00:11:27] Devyn Bellamy: completely, I know

[00:11:29] Liz Moorehead: all rising and falling together.

[00:11:32] George B. Thomas: Okay.

[00:11:33] Liz Moorehead: The Thursday keynote speaker. Of inbound 2012 brought the house down with a talk. They called care immensely or die in which they challenged marketers to market more from the heart rather than their head. Who was this keynote speaker?

[00:11:48] George B. Thomas: I want to say it was Gary V. That's what I want to say. I feel like I'm fundamentally wrong again, but I want to say it was Gary V.

[00:11:57] Dan Moyle: I'm going to support you on that one. So Gary V, I think that's right.

[00:11:59] Devyn Bellamy: Now see, I'll just go against and just say I don't think it was Gary V. I've been wrong every time so far. So I guess

[00:12:06] George B. Thomas: You might be right this time.

[00:12:08] Devyn Bellamy: Yeah, we'll see.

[00:12:09] Liz Moorehead: Devin, your streak continues, George. You are vindicated. It was in fact one Gary Vaynerchuk.

[00:12:15] Devyn Bellamy: I knew it.

[00:12:16] George B. Thomas: There we go. Now we're talking. Ugh. Phew.

[00:12:21] Liz Moorehead: love enjoying. I love watching you guys squirm in your seats.

[00:12:24] Devyn Bellamy: Oh, it's over.

[00:12:24] Liz Moorehead: any, but the trivia is over. You can't leave the episode

[00:12:28] Devyn Bellamy: I I was I was just tired of looking like an idiot.

[00:12:31] George B. Thomas: I mean, that's pretty much my daily, uh, jam, so, whatever.

[00:12:36] Liz Moorehead: well, how about this guys? Are you ready to look really

[00:12:38] George B. Thomas: Yeah, let's do

[00:12:39] Devyn Bellamy: Let's go

[00:12:40] Liz Moorehead: All right. All right. George and Dan, I actually want to start with you two. You're both speaking at Inbound this year. are you talking about? Are you excited? Are you running laps to prepare? Like what, what's going on in your brains right now?

[00:12:52] George B. Thomas: Go for it, Nan.

[00:12:53] Dan Moyle: Uh, okay. So yes, speaking, super stoked about it. Um, we actually, so as George mentioned, I've been trying to get back to inbound. I was invited the first couple of years to speak. I spoke on the bold stage, uh, the third year. It was incredible. Almost like a Ted talk type thing with Laura Fitton or pistachio.

Um, Incredible experiences. And then they started to like take applications. So each year I've tried to find that nugget that will bring what I brought the first time to an audience. So this year I thought I'm not doing it. I'm done. My heart's been broken too many times inbound. I can't do it. Well then, um, Josh Curcio from, uh, is it protocol 80, right?

Um, another HubSpot partner reached out to a few of us in the community, the top solutions authors and said, Hey, what if we did a panel?

[00:13:40] George B. Thomas: Mmm.

[00:13:41] Dan Moyle: And I said, okay. So Carsten, the number one solutions author can't make it. He decides to not become because of ecological environmentally friendly. He doesn't like to travel.

So he doesn't travel. So it's the other four of the top five. So Josh, Phil, myself, and then Jennifer Nixon are going to be on this panel with Kyle Jepson, moderating to just talk about how HubSpot and community brings so much value to partners, users, and everybody in the ecosystem.

[00:14:11] George B. Thomas: ladies and gentlemen, if you are not in that room, if they do not have to do an encore ad TVs to simulcast it at the three bars next to the BCEC, like

[00:14:24] Liz Moorehead: I'm going to line up like it's Black

[00:14:26] George B. Thomas: I mean the, those humans in that room being emceed by that man like it is sure to be fire. Fire. Mm

[00:14:35] Dan Moyle: I'm stoked. I can't wait. I would love, like I've said all along, and George knows this. My, my deep dark secret is that while I do love being helpful and there is an altruistic point to me speaking on stages, the little ego side of me wants like hell to be on that main inbound

[00:14:50] George B. Thomas: oh yeah.

[00:14:50] Dan Moyle: I was in front of it once in front of 20, 000 people with David Meerman Scott, but I want to be on it.

And so I want our little panel to have so much interest that they go, you know what, put them on the main

[00:15:01] George B. Thomas: Oh, dude, dude. First of all, that would be dope. Second of all, I'd be pissed, but, but because you know that it's actually

[00:15:08] Liz Moorehead: And that's called

[00:15:08] George B. Thomas: that's called a friendship. I would high five you and then like flip you the, no, I'm just kidding. I wouldn't flip anything, but, but because you too know that like that is one of my goals and the, the bigger inbound has gotten and the level of speakers that they've been able to pay for, that goal has gotten harder and harder and harder over the years to hit that main stage.

Um, but no, I would, if I hope I, as a matter of fact, I'm going to do all that I can do in my power to make everybody want to go to that session so much that that's the only place it'll fit. Because then that would be amazing. It would be an amazing moment in time for you and the folks who have given over and over and over to thousands and thousands of people inside the community.

So it would be well deserved well deserved.

[00:15:53] Dan Moyle: Well, I appreciate it. See hype squad. You got to have a hype squad. You gotta have friends that challenge you, support you, and then flip you the bird when they, when you are successful,

[00:16:01] George B. Thomas: Dang God.

[00:16:02] Dan Moyle: because you got to challenge.

[00:16:03] George B. Thomas: yeah, I inspired him too much. Dang it. No, I I would never be that guy. So Liz, I'm super excited because, um, so, uh, inbound has different types of sessions. They have like these 45 minute sessions, and then they have like these 30 minute sessions and they have like speakers and panelists, and then they have these things called deep dives.

Which deep dives, I believe are like 90 minutes that you actually have the stage that you can do these things, which I am thankful for every one of the stinking minutes that I have for the deep dive that I'm doing this year because I'm talking about future of content. AI harmony and human touch and human.

Oh, shoot.

[00:16:47] Liz Moorehead: What are you doing?

[00:16:48] George B. Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. So I, well, you know, I'm, I'm whatever I messed

[00:16:52] Liz Moorehead: You're excited. You're excited.

[00:16:54] George B. Thomas: And, and so what's fun is behind the scenes. I've been really nerding out for a lot of years on a human communication, being human, happy, helpful, humble, human, um, human first internally, human first externally.

For the last year, year and a half, I've really been nerding out behind the scenes on AI for image generation. Um, writing all, all sorts of likeI, optimizing my day with ai, and so I'm, I'm excited to be the guy. That can take, uh, the side of who I've been and then add in this AI conversation, but in the right way, um, we've had many conversations on this podcast of like too many people when they're creating content or looking for the easy button.

And I'm going to show you how you might be able to build a little bit of an easy, but better button for when you go to try to do this thing. Um, and I'm so excited that I've actually already started to build my presentation deck, meaning this is the first, like, usually I'm the last guy, like, they're like, George, you were supposed to send it a week ago.

And I'm like, sorry, I I'm. Trying but

[00:18:10] Liz Moorehead: I've literally been the girl who was a speaker there though, who walked up during the conference and said, here's a USB key with my most recent updated version of my, of my

[00:18:18] George B. Thomas: yes, yes, yes. So, so I've already started to build it out. Um, and. What's fun is it's going to be part presentation deck, part like sharing actual things of me doing things because I have 90 minutes. I'm, I'm, I'm looking at this deck and I'm like, this is going to change people's lives. Like when they get this information, they're going to walk away and go, holy crap.

This is what's possible.

[00:18:45] Liz Moorehead: I've got to be honest, you know, we're about to start digging into what we're all really excited about for inbound, especially since they've started releasing the names of some of these sessions, including your, yours, I I've, I've got to do a double click on George's. I got to be his hype squad for a second.

Um, because I, I've had the privilege over the past, what, two months or so. And in particular over the past few weeks, we've been really hammering home on this and some of the stuff that he has developed and he is building. It is. It's out of this freaking world. Like this is a session that people should not miss.

Um, I, I, it's a, it's a session where I'm like, this should be required given the amount of crap that quite frankly, we're seeing come out with people using AI and a lot of cases. Incredibly well meaning companies, incredibly well meaning marketers. But we've had this conversation now numerous times over the past few weeks in different episodes, like AI is great, but we Houston, we have a problem and it's robot shaped.

So like, we need to talk about that. So I am so excited for both of your

[00:19:52] George B. Thomas: Thanks, Liz.

[00:19:53] Liz Moorehead: Um, now granted, this is only the beginning. Of what HubSpot will be sharing. And again, this is inbound. com forward slash agenda for you folks following along at home, they are going to continue to drip updates, drip, exciting announcements, dripped out new speakers, new events, everything that's going on.

But I'd be curious, Devin, let's jump over to you for a minute. What are you excited about from what you've seen come up so far?

[00:20:18] Devyn Bellamy: uh from what i've Okay,

[00:20:21] Liz Moorehead: Oh, he's doing that thing where he can't talk about

[00:20:23] Devyn Bellamy: That's the challenge. That's the challenge. See, I can always tell when it's close to inbound, um, because there, there's this palpable excitement, uh, in the company and everybody, regardless of, uh, what, uh, team you're on, we all have, uh, Uh, a dog in the fight when it comes to doing something in inbound, you know?

Um, so what I will say, I'm super excited to see everybody. I, that for me is the best part of inbound. Um, because, uh, for those, you know, me know that I'm a hermit. I don't, I don't like people. I don't like being around people. I don't like doing things. I don't like human beings in real life. With the exception.

Of when I'm at inbound. Um, when I'm at inbound, it's like I become this gregarious, outgoing, outspoken, just having a great time, love all you people, um, for the next three days. And then I spend another year charging my social batteries.

[00:21:28] Liz Moorehead: As someone who literally hissed at a client earlier, like a cat on a call, I'm George can back me up. That is a,

[00:21:34] George B. Thomas: This is a fact. This happened.

[00:21:36] Liz Moorehead: This is a, this is the thing that actually happened. Uh, I, that resonates with me very deeply on a spiritual level. I spent a lot of time hiding behind a keyboard and then Liz has to crawl out of her cave and remember how to human again, but you know, Devin, I would love to hear from you.

Specifically coming from this perspective, right? Like, there are a lot of people where there's that, there's that internal push and pull, right? Like, they want to connect. They want to find more people like them, but big networking conferences, particularly one that continues to boast tens of thousands of people.

Of attendees, that's really emotionally overwhelming. So to folks out there who might resonate with some of what you've said about like, Hey, like I'm not the networking kind of guy, but inbound Christmas comes once a year. What makes it worth coming out of the cave for what makes it actually still a place that celebrates us introverts and us nerds who are finally coming out from behind our keyboards?

[00:22:34] Devyn Bellamy: The biggest thing, um, is one, it's an environment that is friendly for, uh, people who are neurodivergent. Um, so like, for instance, I have a friend who can get stimulated very easily, overstimulated. Um, there are rooms where you can go that are like quiet and dark. There are specifically for, uh, decompressing and getting away from that.

Um, Yeah, but the biggest thing is that if you just flat out, just don't want to be around people, it's. Also a digital experience, nothing compared to in person, but you can still experience part of it. Um, but there's nothing like being there in person and meeting like minded individuals, um, who nerd out about what you nerd out about that.

That to me was like the most exciting thing was like meeting people who are passionate about the same thing. And so. If you have the, uh, the social ability or, or the social battery enough to go to a, uh, your local comic book convention, you have more than enough to go to Inbound. You don't even have to dress up.

[00:23:45] George B. Thomas: Um, I mean you could, cause,

[00:23:48] Devyn Bellamy: You could. Some people do. Some people do.

[00:23:51] George B. Thomas: and you'll see orange suits, and stuff, so you could, if you wanted to.

[00:23:57] Liz Moorehead: Dan, what about you? What are you excited about?

[00:23:59] Dan Moyle: to Devin. I, it is a family reunion. Um, I started going, you know, we had the trivia about when it started officially 2012 as the official inbound, but Devin, I mean, all the way back to probably 2008 when they first started, they probably had a gathering that first year, right? A HubSpot. I've been going since 2011 before it was actually inbound.

I've been enough times like I'm, I'm never not learning, but I've been enough times that. The sessions aren't the, the end all be all for me. It's the connections, right? I go to a few sessions. I learned some things, but like Devon said, you can get that online sometime. There's nothing like a George B.

Thomas interactive deep dive. You're not going to get that online. So go to that one. But there are plenty of sessions that you can see online. I could, I could see Michelle Obama speak from her YouTube page. I don't have to be there to see her, but it is absolutely for me, a hundred percent of connections.

Okay. Walking in and seeing HubSpot community members that you interact with, seeing HubSpot, um, HubSpot user group leaders, hug leaders, seeing clients that are there that have never been to an, an event. And they're like, Oh my gosh, you saved my business. Let me take you out for lunch or something like all of that.

Is absolutely why I go and I'm an extreme extrovert. So I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum, probably than Devon. I am kind of a hermit, but I'm also like, I love, I love being around people. So for me, it's easy, but it's also is still exhausting. So a hundred percent support the introverts find your place, find your piece, but my goodness, that connection is exactly what I'm looking for.

[00:25:30] Liz Moorehead: Every black cat needs a golden retriever. Introverts and extroverts go together.

[00:25:34] George B. Thomas: It's,

[00:25:34] Liz Moorehead: We

[00:25:34] Dan Moyle: How did you know it was a golden retriever? I feel, I feel so seen.

[00:25:38] George B. Thomas: you go.

[00:25:38] Liz Moorehead: I, I'm always kind of in the middle. Like I, I will never call myself an ambivert and I'm not an introverted extrovert, but what will happen sometimes is that if I'm not around people for long, like for extended stretches of time, because I live by myself, the minute I see a person, I'm like a golden retriever pressed up against the glass.

Like seeing it's over, like you've only been gone for eight hours. It's felt like forever. Where have you been? So anyway, George, what about

[00:26:03] George B. Thomas: it's, it's, well, first of all, I'll tell you what I'm excited about. Uh, but it's funny because I listened to Devon and Dan and I realized that God made me different because I am so comfortable being a hermit. An example, this week my family has been gone, I have been in this house by myself with the pets that we have, and I have loved every minute of it, I have not had to go outside really to do anything, to talk to anybody, I've, now I miss my family, yes, and I love them, but I, I could be a hermit.

But I also love the energy of the stage and the audience and the community and the networking. Okay. So I'm not gonna, you know, surprise anybody. I'm excited for inbound because of the humans, but I'm going to get very specific to why I'm excited this year about one individual human, by the way, yesterday we booked our hotel room for the Westin. So we will be hanging out in the West in the lobby as, as one who attends inbound should do.

[00:27:15] Liz Moorehead: As one does.

[00:27:15] George B. Thomas: And we started investigating flights because I am flying one Jorge Fuentes to Boston because he was able to get his visa earlier this year. And I get to see Jorge in person, live and in living color.

And we get to hang out and do inbound together. Um, I'm just, I'm so excited about that because he has Added a ton of value to the organization, um, became a great friend along the way. Um, and has turned himself into this certification HubSpot beast that he's becoming with his own brand. And I'm just uber excited to bring him to this experience, bring him in, in, in life to the community and to the event.

Um, I don't care how much it costs. I don't I just don't care. Now, with that said, nobody else from the theme is coming this year. It's just Jorge and I, everybody else is staying home. Um, and what's funny is it was actually one of my daughters who said, Dad, I think it should just be you and Jorge, so that you two can have that experience together and not be in the shuffle of everything else that would be going on.

And I said, I like the way you think.

[00:28:34] Liz Moorehead: I'll be there to bug you

[00:28:35] George B. Thomas: Oh yeah, of course. We'll have all of the other 10, 20, 50, 60, 100, and however many thousand people there. But, we are gonna have, uh, fun walking around Boston as the two Georges, or the two Jorges, whichever way you want to look at it. There you go. Sounds like a great beer, by the way.

Dos Jorges would be a great beer. Whoop

[00:28:56] Liz Moorehead: To be honest that I just leaked what my thing that I said, I'm excited. I'm actually going to be there. I

[00:29:01] George B. Thomas: whoop!

[00:29:01] Liz Moorehead: not been there in three years. I have not been to inbound in three long years.

[00:29:09] Dan Moyle: How real is that FOMO?

[00:29:11] Liz Moorehead: I cannot, I photoshopped myself into a picture with George and

[00:29:15] George B. Thomas: She did that. She did

[00:29:16] Liz Moorehead: Devin, it is a real thing that happened and I made it my profile photo and was like, see guys, I'm totally there. This is fine. And I am acting with normal psychological behavior right now. I

[00:29:27] George B. Thomas: Which, by the way, we laughed our butts off when we saw that photo. We're like, this is hilarious.

[00:29:31] Liz Moorehead: you're welcome. You're welcome. Uh, I'm excited to see my fellow hub heroes in person. I'm excited to see everybody. And personally, I am really excited about the lineup. So I know we've only gotten a limited snapshot. Into the lineup for this year, but it's like they started hearing my cries and I keep trying to open it.

If you have heard my cries in the darkness about the things that I have been looking for, the things that I want guys, we actually have more stuff about content this year. This is the thing I have been complaining about. I have been complaining about this. You missed it last year, Dan, when I was talking in our recap and our lead ups where I was like, we are not talking about content enough.

Now, could we be talking about content more? Yes. I still fundamentally believe the, the great flaw. Of the inbound ecosystem is that we spend a lot of time talking about how important content is, how to create ideas for content, what to do once you have the content, but not necessarily the missy middle of how content actually gets made.

It's like, we assume wizards are going to do it. There are no wizards. There are only Liz's and some robots, you know? So, so that is, that is still HubSpot call me

[00:30:51] George B. Thomas: Yeah.

[00:30:52] Liz Moorehead: happy to talk about this, but what I do love is seeing. The diversity of content that's in there. The fact that we are talking about content.

I've got to admit, I was a bit anxious about the idea of a 90 minute deep dive because I'm like, man, that's when you have so many sessions that are possible to attend at inbound. 90 minutes is two other sessions, but I am now finding myself in a position where, and I really encourage people again, and bell.

com forward slash agenda, really taking a look at what some of these deep dives are. You have a chance to not just walk away with some topical, abstract inspiration. It seems like they're really going out of their way. To give people more tactical takeaways, more blueprints, more things they can actually take home things that cannot be accomplished in 45 minutes.

Um, I loved seeing that we're going to be talking about messaging this year. Finally, finally, we're talking about messaging. We're talking more about the words that you're actually putting out there and making sure that they actually matter. But that's what I'm excited about other than seeing everybody and then giving Devin one last chance.

One hour long

[00:32:05] George B. Thomas: Oh, that's,

[00:32:06] Liz Moorehead: like just, yeah, one of the breakout sessions, one of the breakout sessions is actually just Devon quietly saying like, can someone please help? And I'm like,

[00:32:14] George B. Thomas: Yeah.

[00:32:14] Liz Moorehead: no, no,

[00:32:15] George B. Thomas: Warn me when that's gonna happen. I'll find a

[00:32:17] Liz Moorehead: It's on the main stage. It's actually the Thursday morning keynote.

[00:32:21] George B. Thomas: Liz hug on the keynote stage. Nice. Nice.

[00:32:24] Liz Moorehead: It's a literal HubSpot user group

[00:32:26] Devyn Bellamy: So I can just press the panic button and George will be instantly notified.

[00:32:30] Liz Moorehead: Liz is here. Oh no. Where are you going, George? It's the middle of your deep dive. Liz, um, missed Devon.

[00:32:38] George B. Thomas: I need, I need to

[00:32:39] Devyn Bellamy: found him!

[00:32:41] Liz Moorehead: I know right so okay could imagine that some people right now might be listening to this and going guys. It's April It's not even close to September. Is it too early to be preparing or thinking about inbound?

Okay, clearly everyone's shaking their head. No, so, you know, I'm gonna throw it out to the group guys Why isn't it too early and what should preparation

[00:33:00] Devyn Bellamy: Yo, let me jump in on this really quickly. Um, people who have never been to Inbound, people who have never heard of Inbound, may not realize that Inbound ain't free. Inbound ain't even cheap! It's free! Um, the ticket prices, uh, as the event draws closer, go up and it's not a time based thing. It's, uh, we have a certain number of tickets available at this price, certain number available this price.

Um, and we've already sold out of the first two prices. Um, so, uh, there's still one price tier left, um, before it hits the highest price. Uh, and then even then waiting until last minute. This is an event that has sold out This is an event that has a capacity So, uh, don't wait to uh to to get your ticket So that that's that's first and foremost why it is not too early to be thinking about inbound a

[00:33:56] George B. Thomas: Yeah. Which by the way,

[00:33:58] Dan Moyle: And on the budget side of things,

[00:33:59] George B. Thomas: it hasn't always

[00:34:00] Dan Moyle: all that

[00:34:01] George B. Thomas: Like They used to just let people just not anymore.

[00:34:05] Dan Moyle: too many people. Yeah, it's, it's, um, the, the hotel rooms are not cheap. Like you gotta get a flight or a train or something in the hotel rooms go fast. you end up staying somewhere. Outside of the seaport area, which is fine. It's not like you can get places, but then you got to Uber. They used to have for several years, they had shuttles last year.

They didn't have shuttles anymore. So you've got to prepare for that kind of stuff. So, yeah. And then just like, I remember the first couple of inbounds, I set up a, like a spreadsheet, like a calendar and said, here's all the sessions I want to go to start color coding them by priority. That like, and so it just takes a lot of planning to figure out your days.

Yeah. You don't want to over schedule yourself because you got to make sure you got time in there to decompress, to have some conversations, to have serendipity happen. But, uh, yeah, you, you gotta, you gotta start

[00:34:52] George B. Thomas: And not only that, but planning and paying attention, because like Dan, you're mentioned the spreadsheet and like you, if you're not paying attention now and all of a sudden they release of like, Hey, you can go sign up for the session, even though you did all that planning, if you're not paying attention to when that date is and going into your app and signing up, you might not.

the actual sessions that you want to get to. Um, the other piece that I'll throw in there, yes, by the way, hotel rooms, I was ecstatic that I could still get a room in the Westin. I know that won't be in the next month or a couple weeks. That won't even be a possibility. Um, yes, I spent enough to probably put one of my kids through college in Uber payments last year because there were five of us and we had to take two Ubers and we're not small people.

So we didn't take small Ubers. Anyway, you do the math what that actually equaled out if I would have just went ahead and got us closer to the convention center last year. but listen, Right now you should be thinking about what is it that you are great at that you want to get better? And what is it that you want to add to your tool belt?

And how can you look at the sessions as they're coming out and start to build that plan of attack for both of those lanes of your educational future? You can't do that like one day before the event.

[00:36:11] Liz Moorehead: George, I want you to stay on the mic for a second because I have, I have a question specifically for you. I want to talk to George. You now is the newly minted HubSpot partner agency owner. You're never a man to shy away from doling out challenges. So I, this is your opportunity. What is your challenge?

Your call to action, if you will, for business owners and other agency owners. Like you out there who may be on the fence about sending their people to inbound, because I know this is a particularly hot topic for

[00:36:40] George B. Thomas: Um, 1st of all, you shouldn't be on the fence and I get there's a couple directions. This conversation could go meeting. Um. Can you send everybody? No. Did I bring the entire family as the theme aka family and team last year? Yes. Was it expensive? Yes. Do I ever plan on doing it again? Maybe. Maybe.

We'll see. Um, did I have to turn, uh, one of the employees slash one of the family members down this year because I wanted to slim it down to this is the focus point that we have to go at? Yes. With all of that said, though, it should never be a thing of is the cost of these tickets, hotels, food, whatever worth the cost, because the answer will be yes, the person that they will become.

After they attend inbound, if you as a good leader lead the direction in the right way and listen to some of the things that we're saying here on this podcast, it's going to be transformational. I mean, listen, in 2012, I was a designer developer building websites when somebody would shove a pizza under the door and a six pack of Coke and a WordPress website could come out the other side.

I went to one inbound in 2012. Well, and you can just see the difference of where we're at and what we're doing. Right. Web developer, designer to agency owner, and, and a, a little bit of a brand inside of the HubSpot ecosystem because I attended inbound.

[00:38:14] Devyn Bellamy: of a brand

[00:38:15] George B. Thomas: bit of a brand,

[00:38:16] Devyn Bellamy: skosh

[00:38:17] Liz Moorehead: Just, just dabbling in a brand,

[00:38:19] Devyn Bellamy: May hurt you

[00:38:19] George B. Thomas: So, so like it will be transformational to them in ways that you probably can't even measure and may not ever be able to measure.

[00:38:28] Liz Moorehead: Dan, let's flip the script here a little bit. How do you encourage marketers, maybe other agency wonks or anybody who's an inbound practitioner of any way to talk to their bosses, their agency owners, their leaders about going to inbound? What tips do you have for making that case?

[00:38:46] Dan Moyle: I mean, I don't think George is speaking hyperbolically. This is not hyperbole that he's speaking. It is transformational. again, you can't send everyone, you can't send everyone every year necessarily, uh, but sending someone to an inbound connects them with the community that's there, connects them with thought leaders, injects into them, inspiration, um, It's not always for everyone.

I can think of a particular friend of mine of a former colleague, friend used to actually work for me at one point who often would say, I don't need to go to conferences to see inspirational speakers I'm inspired by just doing good work. Okay, great. Maybe it's not for that person. No worries. But honestly, for 90 percent of everybody else, I feel like, like it is.

So if I would go to my boss and say, look. I want to do this thing. I am willing, you know, if it's a matter of cost, I'm willing to find the cheapest hotel room that I can bunk with someone, maybe we can get an Airbnb and share it with some people. I don't know. I'll figure that out. Um, to try and get a discounted ticket in some way, maybe, right.

There are sometimes people who are selling tickets at discounted prices, or if you're really involved in things like the HubSpot community, you might find a discount available from someone, but it's worth every penny just to go and pay full price, even. Um, it is very, it is informational. It is inspirational.

It is transformational. So if I'm trying to convince my boss, I'm going to talk to them about those things. I'm going to get ideas that I never would have had sitting here by myself. I can bring ideas back to the team. I'm willing to give a presentation back to you with all the notes that I took. Right.

I'll bring this back to our team. So that's, I mean,

[00:40:17] George B. Thomas: It's, it's interesting because this idea of, um, Compounding interest. The compounding interest of the three to four days of those humans being at inbound and going through the inbound experience. The ROI over the years. And again, it could be for your organization. You know what? Actually, here's what I would say to leaders. I would ask you to think about when you're making a decision, are you mapping it out on the ROI that will be returned to your organization or the ROI that that human will be able to put into the planet and then make your decision?

[00:40:56] Dan Moyle: Hopefully they're already thinking that way. Right? Like I know a lot of leaders I've had managers before where like, I don't want you to get better because you might leave. Well, right. Like if I, if I train you too well, you're going to leave. If I give you too many things, you're going to leave. But if you don't, I'm going to stay.

Isn't that

[00:41:10] George B. Thomas: Right, right.

[00:41:12] Liz Moorehead: kind of message is that sending to people? I want you to be Average and mediocre. Just the way you are right now. Don't reach too high. Don't push too hard.

[00:41:22] George B. Thomas: However, it is many organizations that you might step foot into, unfortunately.

[00:41:27] Liz Moorehead: Oh yeah. So question for everybody and Devin, I don't know how you answer this other than I can't tell you anything because I have all the secrets, but I want to throw this out to the group. What are we hoping for HubSpot to deliver this year? Whether that's something different from last year, something we want them to do again, or something new that we want to see personally.

I'm just, again, pleasure to be nominated. Happy to be there.

[00:41:52] Devyn Bellamy: for me. It's the same thing every year. I want to see ryan reynolds.

[00:41:55] George B. Thomas: Oh, yeah. True.

[00:41:58] Dan Moyle: listen,

[00:41:59] Liz Moorehead: Honestly, humble request. Why isn't it already happened? Did you ask Yamini that on your podcast?

[00:42:04] Devyn Bellamy: I mean, his media company, his media buying company is a sponsor. They have booths there every year or so.

[00:42:10] George B. Thomas: Oh, this needs to

[00:42:12] Liz Moorehead: Ryan? Where are you? Where are

[00:42:14] George B. Thomas: And, and, uh, uh, uh, slight spotting of a certain superhero would be absolutely amazing. 

[00:42:23] Liz Moorehead: that either.

[00:42:25] Devyn Bellamy: I,

[00:42:25] Liz Moorehead: be mad about

[00:42:26] Dan Moyle: my family would be jealous.

[00:42:27] Devyn Bellamy: he needs me to bring the superhero, I'll do it.

[00:42:31] George B. Thomas: You go, if

[00:42:32] Liz Moorehead: Oh my God. Screenshot.

[00:42:34] George B. Thomas: screenshot it. If you're listening to this, I apologize. You should be in the live audience or go to community. hubheroes. com and watch the video version because Deadpool has just arrived on the hub

[00:42:45] Devyn Bellamy: Ha ha

[00:42:46] George B. Thomas: Just saying,

[00:42:47] Liz Moorehead: My gosh. Yeah, that screenshot is good. I'm going to, you know what? I'm going to take down every family photo I have and just put up that screenshot because that was beautiful. That was beautiful. George, Dan, what are you looking for from HubSpot to deliver to this year? That

[00:43:00] Dan Moyle: that's a, that's a, that's a big one, right? I, I look for them to deliver the same thing they do every year connection. And it's not like HubSpot, the company does a great job with their inbound staff, event staff and everything, but it's the humans within there. It's running into the Devins. It's going into the community area and running into some of the professors that you see, and they.

You know, they've interacted with you on social and they get to see you. So I expect them to bring that connection. So that'll happen. What I would love to see at some point is a, I don't know how you do this with this big of an event, a better run sessions, logistics. I'd love to see them deliver a better experience there.

What George said about like, you got to sign up for your, your sessions. That's helped, but it's still just tough. And I don't know, I don't have a how to solve it idea, but if they can deliver that to where it feels. Like those first few years in some way, that'd be amazing.

[00:43:58] George B. Thomas: Um, if I could get anything I wanted, I would ask for an inbound boosted board so that I wouldn't have to do all of the walking and I could just zoom by, uh, everybody. I'm just kidding. I, I would probably reckon to people I would need a helmet and I would look weird as all get out. Um, I always look forward to the food trucks, by the way, not because I like to eat, but I just like what it causes in the actual area of like the, the picnic tables and the swings and the food trucks.

And like this, like idea of breaking bread together, which is like a deeper level of like familia, right? The family is together. And so I like that. Um, hope that Inbound pays attention to what used to never happen, but has really happened over the past year. And dare I say, two years, the amount of, I wish I had a beat button. I don't anyway, the amount of, sponsors

[00:45:02] Devyn Bellamy: Yeah.

[00:45:02] George B. Thomas: that try to get ahold of me before, and the amount of sponsors that try to get ahold of me after.

Um, it never used to be a thing, but it's quickly becoming a thing. And I'm like, Ladies and gentlemen, we are at an inbound event. We are talking about being magnets. We are trying to teach people how not to detract from the brand. And yet I feel like the Week or two before inbound and the month or so after is a little bit like somebody's reached in and used the LinkedIn strategy that most people are using and just sending me shit I don't care about. So inbound, if we could try to figure out how to fix that, get a little bit more segmented. A little bit more. I only hear from people that I might have actually said I wanted to hear from. I don't know how we do that. Also, can you let me bring home my inbound badge? Cause the fact that I don't have two years of an inbound badge hanging behind me because I had to return a little frickin click thing because you wanted to track me around. I'd really like to be able to keep my inbound badge. I'm just saying

[00:46:17] Liz Moorehead: bums me out. That's one of my favorite things to do. Like, it, like

[00:46:21] George B. Thomas: get over

[00:46:21] Liz Moorehead: running medals. I have my conference

[00:46:24] George B. Thomas: Yeah. Nope. Get over it

[00:46:25] Liz Moorehead: Why do you deprive us, HubSpot? Why?

[00:46:29] George B. Thomas: anyway, but I will gladly wear that badge around for the entire event. I'll take it off while I'm speaking, but I just wish I could take it home with me.

[00:46:38] Liz Moorehead: I

[00:46:38] George B. Thomas: Oh, by the way, by the way, sorry. Sorry, Liz. I'm sorry. Um, uh,

[00:46:43] Liz Moorehead: go

[00:46:43] George B. Thomas: Salim in the chat asked a question about correspondence program. I have it on good authority. That that is still a thing that most likely will be happening. So, Salim, you know how to get ahold of me

[00:46:57] Liz Moorehead: Who heard it here first? That's what's up. All right, quick final question. This is selfish. This is meme This is, this is what some girls on the internet wearing pink felt hats call manifesting, I guess. Are we finally going to have a Hub Heroes get together in Boston?

[00:47:15] Devyn Bellamy: Complete with pickles and peanut butter.

[00:47:19] Liz Moorehead: No, no, no, that's not what I mean.

That's not what I mean. I'm talking about like a happy hour. I'm talking about a live record. I'm talking about an extended group hug where I make everyone

[00:47:28] George B. Thomas: First of all, Liz, first of all, pickles and peanut butter is a happy hour. I'm just going to throw that out there. Like Devin was a static. He loved it. Every bite of it. He was like, this is the most amazing stuff ever.

[00:47:40] Liz Moorehead: Devon, is this just you wanting me to go through the pain?

[00:47:43] Devyn Bellamy: Actually, yes. Yeah, it is. As far as I'm concerned, it's a rite of passage.

[00:47:48] Liz Moorehead: Attack! Attack!

[00:47:49] Devyn Bellamy: one person has yet to toe this

[00:47:52] George B. Thomas: Right? Right, but

[00:47:54] Devyn Bellamy: people bleed for God and country. We eat peanut butter and pickle sandwiches.

[00:47:59] Liz Moorehead: Nick fro Nick from Fargo just popped in to say hey and he loves us.

[00:48:04] Devyn Bellamy: Aww.

[00:48:04] George B. Thomas: gosh look

[00:48:05] Liz Moorehead: Hi Nick from Fargo, we love you! I'm sorry, being in the live audience for these recordings. It's the best. It's my favorite. Um, so yeah, we have to figure this out. I have had people ask me about this. I know people want to do an official or unofficial get together.

I'm still waiting for HubSpot to call us. Could you imagine a live recording of

[00:48:28] George B. Thomas: I mean, two things need to happen. One, one, we need to figure out a restaurant or a place to say meet us on this day at this time for like this section of an evening so we can just like hang out as, as hub heroes. Two, if anybody from HubSpot or anybody from inbound, uh, Courtney, Andrea, I don't know anybody, uh, if you want to put us on the podcast stage or the podcast area, we would be glad to show up and actually do a live episode of the shenanigans that we do from our homes. We, we would be happy to do that for you.

[00:49:05] Liz Moorehead: I won't hiss at anybody. I promise. And with that

[00:49:08] George B. Thomas: probably have to sign a disclaimer or something for that. Yeah. Something. Cause you're probably, I'm sure somebody in the audience is like, MEOW! You'll just, see it coming.

[00:49:19] Liz Moorehead: I love it. And George, let me get this straight. We've gotten to the end of the episode and you don't have anything clever to take us out

[00:49:25] George B. Thomas: Well, I've,

[00:49:26] Liz Moorehead: game? So strong?

[00:49:27] George B. Thomas: waiting because you made a term and I was like,

[00:49:32] Liz Moorehead: oh.

[00:49:33] George B. Thomas: I don't know what that is, and so I figured you might close us by explaining what an agency wonk is.

[00:49:44] Liz Moorehead: It just means someone who's been in the agency world for a long time, so like a wonk is just like a nerd.

[00:49:49] George B. Thomas: See, now I went down, like, the Charlie, like, and the Chocolate Factory, like, wonka. Oh, this,

[00:49:57] Liz Moorehead: So it's kind of like, it's, it's a term you hear a lot in the DC area, which is where I'm from, policy wonk, healthcare wonk, like anybody who's like a super niche, niche, deep cut nerd in a particular

[00:50:10] George B. Thomas: oh. See, I thought it was something that geese did. Wonk, wonk, wonk.