Content in 2024: AI, Brand Storytelling, + Content Program Breakdowns (an AMA with Liz)

Hi, I'm Liz Moorehead—inbound content strategist. Ask me anything! That's what this episode is all about.

Well, here we are. I’m not sure how I let this happen, but in this episode, I found myself in a position I typically avoid like the plague—being in the hot seat. And not just any hot seat, mind you. This time, the guys flipped the script on me, and I was the one being grilled on all things content. Yep, the tables were turned, and I immediately regretted it the second we hit record. 

OK, not really. Content is one of my favorite topics of discussion (obviously), but I also love me a little bit of ol' fashioned melodramatic flair. 

How did we get here? A few weeks ago, one of our lovely listeners suggested that maybe the team should interview me for a change. You know, dig into my brain about content strategy, the role of AI in content, the future of content creation—you get the idea. And despite my better judgment (and my deep desire to control the narrative), I said, “Sure, why not?” Big mistake, because George, Max, and Chad did not hold back.

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In this episode, we dive into all the juicy, messy details of content strategy—where it’s headed, how AI is shaking things up (for better or worse), and what it means to build a brand with a voice that actually resonates. Spoiler alert: If you think you can coast on mediocre content while AI handles the heavy lifting, you’re in for a rude awakening. Trust me, the robots aren’t coming for your job, but they will eat your lunch if you’re not careful.

We cover everything from my initial resistance to using AI (I was 100% that person), to why I’m now cautiously optimistic about its role in content creation. And let’s be real, content pros—if you’re not sharpening your skills and evolving with the times, AI might just leave you in the dust. But don’t worry, I’ve got some thoughts on how we can all future-proof our content careers and keep the human element front and center.

So yeah, it’s a little weird being the one answering the tough questions for a change, but it’s also a conversation I think you’re going to love—because at the end of the day, content strategy is about more than just hitting publish. It’s about connecting, persuading, and adapting to a landscape that’s changing faster than we can keep up with.

Keywords

content strategy, AI and content creation, human storytelling, content career evolution, future-proof content strategy, brand voice development, AI tools in content, content audit tips, storytelling in marketing, Liz Moorehead interview

What We Cover

• The Evolution of Content Creation in the Age of AI: We kick off with the big question: How is AI going to change the game for content creators over the next few years? I dive into my initial skepticism (dragged by George, no less) and how AI might help streamline processes but will never replace the uniquely human elements of empathy, storytelling, and connection that make content great.

• The Uncanny Valley Effect in Content: Ever read something and thought, “This sounds almost right, but something’s off”? We explore how AI-generated content often lands in the uncanny valley—where it’s close, but still lacks that irreplaceable human touch. I explain why this is one of the biggest challenges AI faces in content creation and why humans will always have an edge.

• What Skills Are Critical for Content Pros Moving Forward?: Coasting on basic content skills isn’t going to cut it in the AI-driven future in content. I break down why content strategists and creators need to double down on honing brand voice, storytelling, and strategy. AI might assist, but it’s the content pros with deep strategic insight and emotional intelligence who will thrive.

• AI as an Amplifier, Not a Replacement: There’s a lot of fear around AI replacing jobs in content, but here’s the truth: AI will amplify the work of those who know how to use it well. We discuss how to strike the right balance between leveraging AI for efficiency and keeping the human element at the forefront.

• The Content Audit No One Wants to Do: George and I recently tackled a content audit, and let me tell you—this is the piece no one ever talks about, but it’s essential. We talk about the power of a solid content audit and how it helps refine your strategy and clear the clutter. Yes, it’s tedious, but necessary. I’ll share how we tackled it head-on and what others can learn from our process.

• The Power of Human Storytelling: We’ve all heard it before—empathy is key in storytelling. But it’s more than that. We discuss why empathy alone isn’t enough and how storytelling is the art of connecting on multiple levels, both intellectually and emotionally. There’s nuance to this that AI just can’t touch.

• Why Content Isn’t Dead, Despite What You’ve Heard: Is blogging dead? Is video everything now? We break down why the content landscape isn’t binary—there’s room for everything from video to long-form blogs. The real question is understanding your audience and choosing the right format for the right moment. I share why content creators need to embrace a multi-modal approach rather than hopping on the latest trend without thinking it through.

• Content Is a Business of Persuasion: Lastly, we hit a key truth: Content isn’t just about educating. It’s about persuading. This is where so many brands falter—they’re afraid to have a point of view or make an argument. I explain why this is a fatal flaw and how owning your perspective can take your content from good to great.

And so much more ... 

Episode Transcript

Max Cohen: Liz

Liz Moorehead: Me

Max Cohen: where were you on january 6th?

George B. Thomas: Yeah. That's how that interview is going to go, baby. Woo.

Liz Moorehead: and an all day leadership team meeting going, Hey guys, have you seen what's happening on CNN?

Max Cohen: Oh, is that what they were calling it? They were calling it an all day leadership meeting. Yeah, exactly. That's what it was

George B. Thomas: how

Chad Hohn: That's where they

Max Cohen: and peaceful and patriotic all day leadership meeting

Chad Hohn: where I hear they lead.

George B. Thomas: So hang on. You didn't even say the year, bro. So does she have a leadership meeting on that date every year?

Max Cohen: That would be convenient wouldn't it be yeah sounds like an alibi to me

Liz Moorehead: convenient, wouldn't it?

Chad Hohn: Seems like a

Max Cohen: anyway

George B. Thomas: Juke your

Liz Moorehead: Well, Max, I know

Max Cohen: Can someone explain it? Can someone explain the topic of the episode so that joke works?

Liz Moorehead: I was about to,

George B. Thomas: should probably do that.

Liz Moorehead: Yeah, and I'm sorry for the guys. I'll figure out my camera, but welcome to a very special episode that I have already immediately regret agreeing to, um, a couple of weeks ago. 1 of our listeners said they would really like to hear an episode. Where the guys just ask me questions about content.

Whatever they want. My thoughts. So, hi, I'm Liz Moorhead, content therapist, AI poet, ask me anything. George, I'm going to turn it over to you to be the master of ceremonies while I just kind of get emotionally uncomfortable

George B. Thomas: Yeah. Uh, yeah. Get ready to be in the therapy chair, uh, for this episode. So here's the thing. What I want all the listeners to know is, uh, listen, I have been working with, uh, each other for the last two years. A lot of what you see on Sidekick Strategies, George B. Thomas, um, like it's, it's that content it's human centric, it's on brand.

It's like super powerful. Like we just. It's been a pleasure being able to create valuable content to the world together. And so I'm actually super excited, uh, that another human, another human

Liz Moorehead: Oh, yeah.

George B. Thomas: can we dive into Liz's brain? As scary as it may be. I added that last part. They didn't. And so we, we get to ask you questions.

Um, around content and all that good stuff. So I'll, I'll start, I'll throw one out. Um, because I definitely want to make sure that we hit upon this. And if we do it first, we won't, won't run out of time. Right? So Liz, here's the thing where we're at now. We have AI tools that are rapidly advancing. And so how do you see the role of content creators?

Content strategist evolving in the next 35 years. And and I guess I want to add on to this. Will it become more about managing AI outputs? Or do you think the human element will remain central to effective content creation? What are your thoughts on that topic?

Liz Moorehead: You know that this, that my answer to this question has to start with the fact that like full disclosure, I was dragged kicking, screaming, complaining, asking if I was being punished, going into yes, George is pointing at himself. He got me there. He got me there. I was. At first, I was definitely one of those, like, basement dwelling mouth breathers, like, But my art!

But my craft! This will But then I started sitting with what my actual fear was. I wasn't concerned about my job ever being taken away. My concern was Was that a I in the hands of the many would create, quite frankly, much of what we are seeing today, right? What we're seeing today is an uncanny valley effect.

And for those who aren't aware what uncanny valley is, it's essentially this scientific principle that the closer something that isn't human. Is tried to make look human, like, for example, we love Disney characters, right? Disney characters, but we know they don't look real. They look like a cartoon, they feel safe, they feel whatever.

But then we see robots that are meant to look like humans, and they freak us out. We don't like it, we have an aversion to it, we do not trust it. Right. We're starting to see that with content and I'm sure you guys have heard the same thing. Like, I don't know what's wrong with this content, but I can tell it's AI.

I just, I can't put my finger on it. Don't trust it. Something, something's off.

Chad Hohn: Mm-Hmm.

Liz Moorehead: So the reason why I tell this story. Is because when I think about where content, like the role of the content strategist is evolving, the content creator, I think there is. I'll say it. Some of the fear is substantiated. I think for some people who have been coasting without having developed meaningful brand voice, strategy, storytelling skills, where they're not, where they're sitting here saying, what is this blog post going to be?

Instead, who is this for? What do they need from us? How are they going to show up? I think for those people, yeah, maybe you should find a different discipline or maybe those skills you need to hone because that is really what we're going to be looking at in terms of A. I actually have people coming to me asking me for more advice than ever about content creation, about content strategy.

The content audit, George, that you and I did this week. There are certain things where AI is going to extend and amplify the power of people who understand there is a human component of the art of content that will never be replaced. You can get close, you can have facsimiles, but you will always have something that feels And Off if you don't do that level of work.

So this is why, you know, I've talked to, there are a few content managers who I've known through the years who will periodically just do coffee chats with me. We'll just hang out, talk shop, catch up. And I'm finding the skill sets that I am referring to people in terms of how they differentiate themselves.

And I'm like, is it human storytelling? that empathy is not the only way you show up as a human being in content. This is something you and I've talked about, George. Empathy is something that is so important and overinflated in terms of its importance in terms of how we do content storytelling.

But that's where I see this going. It has placed a greater premium on people who have those skills. And if you find someone like a George who will drag you kicking and screaming and help you understand you're not being an artist, you're being a masochist, and you're just being sad to yourself, like, you will learn how to extend your superpowers.

By amplifying the smart parts of the process that take the most time so you can do more high value work.

George B. Thomas: So many of those words bring me great joy to hear you actually say that. And, and the, the fun part is, and this is not a sales pitch, but like being able to do that content audit and give it to the potential client and them have the eye on, like, I don't see chat GPT having a discovery meeting and delivering it in a human way that actually engages and interacts.

So. Love, love that you came kicking and screaming love where you're at with this right now. So Chad Max, uh, your turn. Let's just,

Max Cohen: Why are we so sure that the human element cannot be replaced by AI, Liz?

Liz Moorehead: It comes down to what fundamentally happens in a human interaction. So I'll tell you a hypothetical, not so hypothetical story. There was a girl I used to know in my 20s. Where, like, she was the best bitch to brunch with, no joke. Always a great story, always something really good going on, but I always had her go to a very specific restaurant because I knew if we went to this restaurant at a specific time on Sunday in D.

C., she would get a window seat so I could see what kind of tornado of hell I was walking into. Right. Am I walking up? Am I seeing, she has her head in her hands and we've already got two empty mimosa glasses next to her. She hasn't dumped Kevin yet. He's still an asshole. We're still dealing with a lot of problems, right?

Or is she happy? Is she ready to party?

George B. Thomas: beat button on this episode. Oh my

Liz Moorehead: Sorry, butthead. Kevin was a butthead. All names have been changed to protect the marginally innocent, right? she might be in a great mood. There might be something going on, but I always needed to have emotional, positive, positive And situational awareness walking up to that table because I had to understand based on where she was, what she needed for me.

Now, this is where it gets really interesting, right? I am still always Liz all the time, inserting Godfather analogies where they do not belong. Talking about Nicolas Cage to a degree that is deeply unhealthy, you know, like all of these different things, but that is my voice. That is my all the time personality, but my tone will switch depending on where I'm at, right?

Like if she's, if she's upset and she's sad and she's had head on the table, mimosas, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? I'm showing up there like, hey, baby girl, what would Nicolas Cage do? know what he'd do? He'd steal the Declaration of Independence. If she's in a great mood, it's like, So we're going to the National Archives.

The Declaration of Independence is ours. Right? But that is a very human experience. To sit and assess and understand what a human being isn't. telling you and then understanding what parts of your personality you need to bring out, what stories that you need to tell in order to do that. You'll also just make wildly different editorial choices.

So where does AI come into this? The thing I've noticed with AI, and maybe at some point this will change, you know, I am, I am. I'm notorious for saying, I said this six months ago, I've learned something new. Here's what I've learned. This is what's changed. But as it stands right now, there are always going to be editorial differences between I will tell you what persona they have.

I will tell you what they're feeling and why right now. This is my resume. These are examples of my voice. These are the things that I do. We'll get really dang close. To that AI facsimile, meeting that emotional human need where they are. But if I were to ask George to do the same thing, he'd probably start with, you know, this reminds me of a very specific time in my life where I was, you know, log cabin in the whatever, right.

George B. Thomas: Tell the story. Come

Liz Moorehead: You know, it's, it's the, it's the, it's the log cabin. It's the whore and wrapping. There's a lot happening. So when I think about it is that AI lacks, it gets really close, Max. But what if I put two things down in front of me where we prompted the crap out of AI and George has done this and he gets this from me every time I'm like, George sauce is missing.

Something's missing. There's a story missing here. There is the let me get down on your level as a human being and relate to you. Right? But this is where I think people get it all wrong, Max. Like, why are we trying to fake that? That is the most important part of storytelling. That is the most important part.

That is the high value work you should be doubling down on. And let AI deal with the stuff of, Can you give me a good pros and cons? Salesforce versus HubSpot in a chart, like, can you list that step out for me? Can you expand this section? You should be doing the work of building the human connections because that's how you make the sale.

That is how you get people. Like when people sit in front of you in a sales conversation, that is when they are getting you. That is when they are getting that most authentic part of you. The goal of content isn't just to educate. It's also to create that human connection and experience before they get in front of you.

Earning the trust faster. 

George B. Thomas: now, Max, here's the thing. And then, and then we'll go, Chad, to your question. Here's the thing, Max, in 30 years, when you've had a robot buddy for 10 years, and the robot buddy can go, you remember that day when we're going to go meet Susie and you saw she had three mimosas and you just kept walking by. Now, all of a sudden, there's a historical context, a historical timeline to where what Liz says is maybe a little bit different, but I'm, I, man, the amount of times that I've heard, where's the story? Where's the story? Like, where's the pain?

Liz Moorehead: could be written by anybody. Where's the story? Where are you? Why do you care about this? That's always the thing that comes up. The other thing I will say too, to just kind of add a little bit on top of that is that I could also tell an AI prompt like, Hey, I want to write an article called what is a content strategy?

Here is a deeply detailed, like experience of my time as a content manager. The time I was asked this question, how it feels. But it also doesn't get my brand of weird, like it's only ever going to eat what it's already consumed. It may not bring new metaphors or weird, colorful language. It may not know that I want to describe what it felt like to be asked what a content strategy is and where is it when I thought that was my editorial calendar.

And I wanted to sink into the floor and become one with the tile, and I could not do that.

George B. Thomas: Now, I will

Liz Moorehead: You know, the

George B. Thomas: I will say this, though. Uh. Cause I passed out then came to, uh, when I was generating something and it actually used the word ain't in it. And I was like, wait, what? Hold up. Anyway, Chad, what's, what's your question for Liz?

Chad Hohn: Yeah. Um, I mean, I had a, you know, kind of like an idea of a question before, like an e sinking of a question before

Liz Moorehead: concept of a question, maybe,

Chad Hohn: the, a question of a question in my own questioning mind. Um, and I was questioning it actually now, or now I,

Max Cohen: within the

Chad Hohn: now I'm questioning it. Yeah. But anyway, um. But I I kind of have like, you know I want to connect a couple dots here because like I think what george was talking about was really interesting And then I want to ask liz a question, right?

Because like what max asked is Do we think you know, why are we so sure that this can't actually? Become a human thing and then like we were talking about a discovery call like oh Well, if you have an ai do a discovery call is it going to connect humanly, right? and there's like a couple pieces I want to bring in here too just like for for context but like um, If you could program An AI model even with like a video avatar that could do a discovery call or something right like a video gets better video like if people knew that it was an AI.

Even though a superhuman person programmed it and built this model that was bringing it in, do you think people would pay for that discovery call or, you know, like that service, right? Whatever service that you're building, you're getting an AI to do some of the more grunt worky type front end stuff. You know on that business service and I mean, you know, this could be for providing content strategy You take the brain dump of your experiences I mean like for me like every waking moment of my professional life is recorded in zoom you know and like You just dump all that stuff up and it just chunks on it with the old brain wallet for a while and a whole bunch of nvidia gpu cluster And then spits out like, you know chad discovery call extraordinaire, right or something like that or like Is that like a world that could happen and like do you think people would pay for that it or?

Is that like something that? Would be just too is it like too spooky for us right now? It's going to become commonplace in the future I mean like, you know, nobody had computers. Nobody had a just a Information highway in their pocket every second of every day like nobody had the ability To connect to the internet anywhere in the world Because there's like seven thousand satellites just beaming interwebs down everywhere right like this is all stuff that just like in such a short period of time because I is increasing faster than double every seven years like moore's law would state i mean it's just bonkers how fast it's going you know what are your feelings or thoughts about.

Or are we really, again, to reiterate what Max is talking about with like additional contacts, like would people pay for that kind of a service if it could be built or like, is that something that we should even be considering? Right.

Liz Moorehead: so I have no, but I have more open minded thoughts here than you might think. Like, I'm not going to sit here, but we should hug all the humans all the time. And it's all great, right? Like, the reality is, is that

George B. Thomas: hugs.

Chad Hohn: Oh yeah.

Liz Moorehead: like hugs me too, but the reality is, is it's going to matter about context, right? So when I think about like some of the track transactions I have right now, that may not be AI.

Maybe they are. I don't know. I think about like the little chatbots that I talked to you when I'm dealing with customer service. You know, I'm thinking about more transactional conversations, right? I think it depends on as an organism. These are going to be organizational decisions that you're going to have to make right when you think about the value of a discovery call.

Is it just like, Transactional information that should be given, right? And I don't, I don't think that's the case. I think there are some people who will do that. But the value of a discovery call is kind of like to size each other up. It's not just about, it is not just about, at least for me, when I have both been in sales roles and when I have been talking to someone on a sales team, I'm not just looking for, um, I'm not just looking for an answer to a question.

I'm trying to understand how you problem solve. I'm trying to understand who's the Oz behind the curtain. And is there a vibe fit there? Right. So I think it's going to depend, be heavily dependent on what your sales process is and what it is that you do and sell. Because if you're in B2C and it's product and it's a one time transaction, that may be something that's fine.

But if we're talking about a discovery call, my guys, what is it actually that we're discovering? It sounds like what we're communicating is that we don't have enough time to talk to you unless you actually want to give us money. And I think that is a very hilarious stance to take, especially in a B2B space where everybody's a trusted partner, everybody's strategically on your side.

Did you know our people are our greatest differentiator? Wow, Janice, I would really love to know that if you could show me them. Right? Like, like, that's the thing. This is, I think what we're going to see is the choices. That organizations make with AI. Are going to communicate whether they like it or not, how much they actually value the partnerships, the relationship building again, you should be using AI at strategic parts of your process.

What if you built a great AI tool on your website that had the answers to the most pressing questions of your customers that allowed them to get some of that firsthand knowledge in a self service way. But when they talk to sales, they are talking. To a human being.

Chad Hohn: hmm.

Liz Moorehead: Now, again, I'm sure there will be creative ways in which we will see a I integrated into our lives.

In fact, I'm sure we will find ways that I will trick us and like, Oh, my God, I didn't realize that wasn't a human. Congratulations. You just broke the trust of your customer.

Chad Hohn: Mm

George B. Thomas: So, so I know Chad, you have a question that you want to ask, but I have to dip into that if, if what Liz just said created some curiosity of like, wait, what do you mean tricked that I'm a human or not a human in a world where that's actually a possibility, you should go listen to today's episode of wake up with AI.

Where we actually dove

Liz Moorehead: It's because this will drop

George B. Thomas: this is, uh, this is 10, 18, the morning of 10, 18, go listen to wake up AI, where we talked about retinal scanners for humans versus bots.

Max Cohen: Okay. Nerd.

George B. Thomas: you, you,

Chad Hohn: hmm. Nerd!

George B. Thomas: Chad, you have, you have a question

Max Cohen: Nerd.

Chad Hohn: Yeah, well, I mean, um, I'm just, you know, I was just saying, like, imagine a world, like, this is where my brain went, like, imagine a world where you have, like, the ability to have a full Beans, like, here is a triage of everything that we offer as a B2B or a B2C space. AI interaction and it's a page on your site where when people are trying to learn about your business and they don't really want to commit to talking to somebody yet but you have this super sick resource where they can interact with something almost like they're on a meeting but it's all AI that sucker spits out some sort of a customer fit metric and then goes back into your CRM and when they book a call you already know.

A lot about that customer because of their interactions with your really helpful resource that tells them who you are and what you do And honestly, it probably saves your team time but the delivery mechanism is I think really awesome like that liz was talking about like Hey, we actually care about you because when you schedule a meeting with us, we're going to talk to you as a human but like we also have this super dope thing where you can tell we care about like Giving our humans force multipliers to their day And allowing them to actually engage and, you know, be with you present.

Like, I mean, man, it's funny at RBP, like she, she talks about the human element and, and at our company roofing business partner, we have like a sales rep that like every time he's finally done and gets a guy like a salesperson, uh, you know, across the finish line, like the. The roofing company that he sold like the dude practically wants to marry him, you know, like I mean they just love him He's like a van lifer and he'll just talk to him for like five hours on the phone, you know, and just like He's awesome.

I won't name him, but he has been on tv. So there you go

George B. Thomas: There you go. So I'm only I'm going to throw down one more rule. One rule as we move forward, because I don't want this to be the Liz AI show. Any question that we asked moving forward can't have anything to do with AI, but everything to do with content. All

Max Cohen: All right, Liz, I've been saying this for a while and I want you to tell me if I'm crazy or not. Um, so I oftentimes when I'd be having conversation with customers, even back when I was like onboarding, right? And it was all the. Yeah. You know, back then it was like, get him to blog, get him to blog, get him to blog, right?

Because that was like the lowest barrier of entry, I think, to content creation back in the day, right? And I still, to an extent, maybe it is today, too, right? But, I, you know, a lot of people would start to ask me about video. And obviously, as I started getting more into the creating video for I hate saying the word B2B, but you know, TikToking about HubSpot era of my life.

Um, you know, and people wouldn't ask me kind of, you know, how to get into it or why it's important. Um, you know, the line that I would commonly refer back to is like, we're in the age of where people like to watch not read, right? Um, and is that maybe just because I don't like reading? Or is there any merit to that, uh, statement?

What do you think? Mm 

Liz Moorehead: Yes and no. So this, this reminds me of the conversation, Max, that we had during an episode a long time ago about is blogging dead. And the thing that always frustrates me the most is that we have this very binary approach to how we think about content modalities. Right. And I think mostly because for a long time it was so one dimensional.

It is a blog. There will be a CTA at the bottom. Congratulations. Inbound. Right. Like that was it. And then as we started

Max Cohen: Smack that e book button. Sorry, I had to say it.

Liz Moorehead: smash that like button. But as we started introducing more modalities and different types of content, right. Even different types of written content. People get very antsy and say, well, okay, clearly this is no longer working anymore.

And we're moving to this and very rare. And we see this, not just in the content spaces. Marketers do this all the time. Oh, so we're not doing this anymore. We're doing this now. It's no, no, no, no guys. This is a yes. And this is a both. And this is a, because so max, I think for a lot of people, the ability to democratize educational video Education by visual learning has opened up a lot of abilities for people who just aren't voracious readers.

Right. But let me, but let me get to my point here. Hold on. Cause I see you winding up. The thing though, is that I see a lot of people like there's still people like me, right? Like I really enjoy video. I enjoy it a lot, but for things I'm really learning, I'm an insane person who has a printer right here and I have to print it out and I have to highlight it.

If there are things I really need to. Learn exactly if there are things I really need to learn, I need to also have written stuff because I don't always catch everything when I'm listening to it. I don't always understand things when I'm watching it, but when I have a chance to stop and stare and look at something to see the words, I just learn better.

So what I think is we're seeing the support of a diversity of learning styles. But also in some industries, you may just have greater visual learners. You may have people who are more academic, so they may be more heavily weighted there. This is where I think it comes to understanding your audience. I don't think you're wrong, Max, in saying what you said, because I think for a lot of people, that's true.

Thank God there's video because I'm not listening. For George, let's use a completely different context. How many books have you read this year, George?

George B. Thomas: oh, don't.

Liz Moorehead: Because you listen to them.

George B. Thomas: yeah. It's, it's a lot.

Chad Hohn: read a lot of books

George B. Thomas: it's a

Liz Moorehead: right, but here's the thing. I can't do audiobooks because I won't pay attention. I'll stop listening, I'll zone out. So again, this is where I'm kind of getting to the, like it's a yes and max. And I'm not trying to like backdoor my way out of an answer. I, this is what I truly believe. I wish content creators and businesses would stop saying, well, this is now dead because we have a new thing.

Like no, diversify or understand your audience and what their preferences are and wait it accordingly. But

George B. Thomas: I, I want to throw this in there, uh, real quick. Cause I have learned something about myself. Not that this podcast is about me, but I have realized that if I can listen to it and see it at the same time, it's, it's double, if not triple the impact. Like, like, so to me, I'm like, I'm, I'm getting the point where I think I want to buy the audio book.

And the physical book so I can listen to it and look at it while I'm listening to it and then also mark up like the, the book highlight and all that, because I've noticed when I use something like natural reader to like read a blog article, I actually don't just listen. I ended up looking up and watching the words as it's like highlighting it and talking to me and I'm like, Oh, wow.

I, I really. I understand that better than if I just listen to it. Anyway,

Chad Hohn: Super retention at that

Max Cohen: Kind of like how we're listening, listening to that keyboard right now.

George B. Thomas: keys, girl. I'm just gonna throw that out there. Um,

Liz Moorehead: I had to make a note. Sorry about that guys. Okay.

George B. Thomas: worries. Uh, so who wants, I have a question, but who wants to go next? I'll wait and then go after that.

Chad Hohn: You go. I mean, you haven't

George B. Thomas: Oh, okay.

Chad Hohn: think in a while.

George B. Thomas: So, um, Liz, I actually have two I want to ask. I'll ask this one and if we can fit the next one and then we'll get to it. Um, Liz, I want to ask you what you have seen as the most common silent killers of content programs, and how do you identify and address them before it's too late?

Liz Moorehead: Oh, this is where I put on my content therapist hat and hold up a content doll and say, where in the doll does it hurt? And then we go from there. Um, cause it really is going to depend on the organization. So for example, I look at, I think of it like symptoms, right? Like if somebody is telling me it feels like we're reinventing the wheel every time we're creating content, that means you don't have a documented process with platforms that support the process with people who provide governance oversight. Like that, that's what it says right there. Like one of the biggest killers is you do not actually have Content infrastructure. You, you, you know how to write a blog article. You have a content strategy. You maybe use Google docs. Maybe you use trial. No guys, it is a machine. Like you should be putting in ideas and content spits out.

You should have frameworks in place with an owner overseeing it. Who says, Hey guys, Absolutely. We'd love to do that, but there's no room in our schedule for that. So if we're saying yes to this, what are we saying no to? When I was the editor in chief at impact, I had a very regimented 90 day cycle that I ran for a couple of years where I literally put, and these are Bob Ruffalo's three flex spots where he could just blow up my life and ask for three things every month.

They don't roll over. You can't keep them like vacation days, but they're there, right? So, it's about, do you actually have a system? It reminds me of the book, Atomic Habits, right? You know, you don't fall to the level of your habits. You fall

Max Cohen: Yeah, I read that book.

Liz Moorehead: Hi, Max.

Max Cohen: I don't know. I

Liz Moorehead: So I would say that's one of the number one, that's number the one content program killers.

Uh, another one is, um, you're not actually committed to content. Like this is a very basic one, but like, I remember in the, in a conversation, we recently had George with a client. You know, I said, Hey, I'm actually not here to provide any judgment on what's happening. I asked very few questions going into this audit intentionally because I wanted to just go fresh and see what I would find.

And the symptoms I'm finding here says to me. There isn't really a content priority. So probably the reason why you're seeing some challenges here is like you probably like, I think I'm seeing a symptom of we haven't committed one way or the other and we feel guilty about not having made that decision.

And so often like it's just a lack of commitment. And I see that actually with no judgment, I'm not sitting here. So everybody should have a content program. No, one of the other clients that George and I work on together, and I'm there for content. We don't have a content strategy running for them currently.

We're doing plenty of other stuff that is really geared toward their bottom line. We're doing tons of sales enablement things. We're doing a lot of website stuff. Like that's just not the priority right now. So I think sometimes what will happen is that you will have organizations who believe they should be doing content.

So they start doing content, but they don't. They're not bought in and it's not buy in. It's just like, maybe it's actually not right for them. So they're kind of doing it 50 percent to see if it'll work. But if, again, if you don't put the systems in place with the owner and you actually commit to doing a strategy that is built around your business, like if you're not doing it and you're doing it 50%, it's always going to hurt.

So just have a conversation internally. No, one's going to judge you content. Santa, is it going to put you on a naughty list? Like just, you're doing it. Or you're not doing it. And the other thing I will say is that this is the greatest content sin in Georgia. I haven't even told you this one.

George B. Thomas: Oh,

Liz Moorehead: I believe two things are true about great content. It is selfless, you know, it is selfless education and we need to stop pretending we're not in the business of persuasion.

George B. Thomas: Oh,

Liz Moorehead: had so much blowback. I don't like standards. I don't want to talk to standards. I don't want to feel like I'm persuading. We're not here as like charity robots guys, just like doling out education. Do we have conviction and firm beliefs about what it is that we are teaching and educating about? A hundred percent. Do we have a very specific point of view that we are bringing out into the world and for the right people, this is right for them?

Absolutely. The number one killer I see of content is we've stopped trying to make an argument. We stopped trying to have an opinion. Because we're so afraid that we're going to be seen as selling. Make an argument. Like, George, you and I have been talking about Aristotle's rhetoric and how I've been studying it.

It's the art of persuasion. That is what rhetoric is, and it's ethos, logos, and pathos.

George B. Thomas: I love

Liz Moorehead: Logos is your facts, what it is that you're talking about, the way you're making the case. Your ethos is actually not your values. Yeah, it's not your values, it's not this. Ethos actually is what, what is your authority to be reporting on these facts.

And pathos, emotional appeal. Are you recognizing the human beings in front of you and are you showing up accordingly? And empathy is a small fraction of that. We have to stop pretending we're not in the business of persuasion guys. What that's like, I remember when I stood on stage at impact live at 2019 and I put on a giant screen behind me that says, I like content that makes money. And people started laughing and they got uncomfortable. I'm like, we need to stop pretending that we're here. Did we making them aware of our brand? So they'll want to go to lunch with us. No, we want their money. Well, I like sandwiches and lunch, but like, that's not what we're here for.

George B. Thomas: I don't know

Liz Moorehead: We're here to persuade.

George B. Thomas: hugs and lunch on this podcast.

Liz Moorehead: maybe I just need a hug and I'm cranky and hungry, but yeah, those are my thoughts.

Chad Hohn: Yeah

Liz Moorehead: Those are my thoughts.

Chad Hohn: That's good.

George B. Thomas: Anybody else have a question? Because if not, I got one more, but I want you guys to like have an

Chad Hohn: I Yeah, that whole thing talking about the strategy. I just was like so You know captured by that last little bit I mean it, you know because like i'm not you know, i'm i'm all on the technical side like I don't really do anything with websites. The, the, my content is like orchestrating a structure of a HubSpot portal for somebody to use so that they like to use it, so they want to do their job, so it's a force multiplier for the business, right?

That's like, my kind of content. I like, I make the UI look good and work well and do the things repeatably, right? That's like for me, but I, I was in, in that vein, I, I guess my question for Liz is like, does the out of the box HubSpot marketing hub, like calendar and tasking and all of that business. Like does that actually get the job done or is it like is that a big turd or what?

You know, like what

Liz Moorehead: God, I really hope, I really hope no one from HubSpot is listening.

Chad Hohn: Because like yeah

George B. Thomas: out. Uh,

Chad Hohn: look at

Liz Moorehead: I'm gonna be, you wanna?

Chad Hohn: admin But I don't know the things so I don't know if like i'm like, oh, yeah This is where you do your tasking and here's where your posts are scheduled And here's where your content you guys could work on it.

You can add mention each other You know, or is that not gonna cut it for them, right? You

Liz Moorehead: Yeah, so, uh, here's my realistic and honest answer. And I say this as someone

George B. Thomas: us sued. Just,

Liz Moorehead: I won't get a

George B. Thomas: thing I ask. Don't get us sued.

Liz Moorehead: I love HubSpot and my answer is informed by two very distinct use cases. I have been a content leader inside for a, for an in house company. So I was at a HubSpot diamond partner agency that also had a massive media company side of the business.

And I exclusively ran our content that included Five to 10 new articles a week for different podcasts, videos, and digital curriculum. Okay. So not small stuff. I have also been service side where I am using HubSpot to develop, build, and execute content strategies. I will tell you, I find most of it to be window dressing. I don't really find the SEO content strategy tool, for example, to be terribly helpful. Mostly because I think, for example, that tool in particular has a bit of an identity crisis. Is this here to help me track? A campaign or is it here to help me build a strategy and it's here to help me build a strategy.

You're doing so with a lot of assumptions about, quite frankly, the strategic know how of the person clicking the buttons like it's not really built for that. I also find the content tracking in the campaigns tool to be much more effective. I have used it sometimes if I really want to track the growth of a topic cluster overall.

But for the most part, that's just like an extra step. Now, also here's where we have to get into the human side of the business. Right? So I work for chuckleheads like George. And I say chucklehead as a sign of endearment. I love you so much. No,

Max Cohen: big

Liz Moorehead: know, do you want to know why

Chad Hohn: the ding ding? I don't have my thing.

Liz Moorehead: Do you want to know why I say chuckleheads?

Max Cohen: that rhymes No,

Liz Moorehead: a Executive folks who need to know answers. Now, they do not want to click in to 18 different tabs of HubSpot and a navigation that is constantly changing to understand where something is or what's happening. They are not interested in that if they are even inside the tool at all.

So the way like you have to come up. With a communication strategy with your leadership, with your executive team, and I guarantee you the moment you're making a C suite executive click on their own into somewhere in a HubSpot portal to figure out where something is, you've already kind of lost the battle.

So often I'm going to be doing my project management. Where my C suite is going to be doing most of their work because I need to be able to do 80 percent of my communication with my C suite, with my leadership, whoever I'm reporting to as a content leader within my organization, where they don't have to proactively ask me where something is or what they need to click.

It needs to be something native, quick, fast, immediate. Boom.

George B. Thomas: alright. So, here's what I'm gonna say

Liz Moorehead: Am I in trouble?

George B. Thomas: No, you're not in trouble. And I don't disagree with anything you said. Chad, let's get nerdy for a second. Um, and specifically to what Liz said. Um, C suite. If doing it right should be in HubSpot because HubSpot is the all in one place for their team sales marketing service.

It should be the home base for their reporting. So they, they should be in there. Here's the thing. If somebody at HubSpot is listening, anybody in there, if,

Chad Hohn: poor poor mike. Oh

George B. Thomas: if, if anybody is listening, if we were to take the projects tool and graduate it to what it could be. And actually, like, there is a world where you could have like a ClickUp, Asana, Teamworks inside of HubSpot.

Liz Moorehead: Yes!

George B. Thomas: take the time to code projects to be what projects could be, but it's sat there for the last four or five years and not been changed or turned into anything. And so could the content strategy tools, cause by the way, Liz was talking about the topic cluster tool, not the SEO recommendations, because by the way, SEO recommendations are very valuable and useful for you as a HubSpot user and your website and making it good.

But. Like, so imagine a world where it's topic cluster campaigns, tool, SEO recommendations, and a project management system for content around, especially now that you've got podcasts in HubSpot. So now you've got podcasts, case studies, articles, uh, yo, we need a way to manage all of what you're building over here.

So can somebody please catch up

Chad Hohn: hmm. Well, I mean on the marketing calendar you're supposed to be able to like add tasks and do a couple things Right, but like that seems like it's those tasks aren't connected to projects Like I remember being an inbound. I think it was like the HubSpot Academy timeline, right? And it's like, Oh yeah, in 2019 we released HubSpot projects.

And it's like a footnote in history because it's there. But like, okay, great.

George B. Thomas: the fact that you have sales tasks, marketing tasks and projects, and they're not

Chad Hohn: And they're not unified. Yeah, it's I mean, that goes back, I think, to some HubSpot architecture, like not every object is a first class citizen object, right?

George B. Thomas: Yeah.

Liz Moorehead: I think the other reality is, is that if we think about, and I'm thinking about the C suite folks who I have worked with in different organizations, right? Like George getting you to use HubSpot in the way it's possibly intended with the projects tool. I don't see that as a problem for you, but that's because HubSpot is in your DNA.

But if I think about businesses where HubSpot is not part of their daily. Workflow. That's where I tend to run into problems because the moment I have to ask a CEO to open up a different tool that they will never use except for this. They're going to get cranky. Usually what they want is a link that is public facing.

That is a single source of truth that they could take a look at a three a. m. when they're wondering where something is. And I really don't want them texting me. You know what I mean? Like it's stuff like that. Or we had a client for a long time where like they're just more relationship focused people.

Yeah. He wanted to talk to me. He wanted to have conversations. So this is where I, I know, but this is where I would say content managers. This is the thing I always teach when I do content manager training is always the first module. You are a relationship manager first. That is what you are. If people see you when you're coming down the hallway virtual or otherwise, and they start running and they don't want to work with you, your job is already done.

Your goal, your goal is to understand what people need from you. And, and I mean that in the needs that they're not telling you, you need to go out of your way to become fluent in the language style of their communication. Your job, yes, is to get them to see the value of the content of your creating, but like, don't be the food blogger who tells me 18, 000 paragraphs about your grandmother and the meatballs before you actually give me the meatball recipe.

I don't care. Don't make people work that hard and then be upset when they don't get what they do. What you do. Like that's just the reality. Your goal is to be a relationship manager. Uh oh, Max.

George B. Thomas: Max, what do you think of now? Now, Max, we're moving into the Questions that can be answered in one minute or less, because we're quickly running out of time, but what's on your brain?

Max Cohen: i'm just about to have like a uh, you guys mentioned the projects tool, and I, you know how like there were some tools that were just hidden behind, like the global search for a while, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, uh, I went in there to be like, oh, where's the, how do you, how do you even get to that project's tool anymore?

Like, does it, does it still exist? And, uh, I stumbled upon, uh, the knowledge base article about it. And, um, I, I didn't notice it until right this very moment

George B. Thomas: Uh oh.

Max Cohen: this projects tool, which arguably hasn't been touched since I was onboarding customers with it. this glorified to do list on your iPhone sits right here. Right below the product updates tab in the main top right.

George B. Thomas: This

Max Cohen: Yet we're stuffing playbooks in the library tab?

George B. Thomas: 911. 911.

Max Cohen: the menu? Who made this decision? To put the DO LIST THE F ING TO

Liz Moorehead: god, next episode, Max Cohen airing of grievances.

Max Cohen: Right next to the HubSpot Academy link And they put playbooks In the god forsaken library tab I

Liz Moorehead: remind me of, Max? Max, right now, you be the guy.

Max Cohen: Explode I didn't even know that was sitting.

I didn't know you could access this tool anymore Yet it I god i'm gonna shut up before I

Liz Moorehead: you know who you remind me of right now? You remind, for my, for my chronically online TikTokers out there, the guy who screams at people to wash their rice. That's who you were just now.

Max Cohen: Okay. I'm just sorry. I'm um,

George B. Thomas: You need a minute,

Max Cohen: I'm over, I'm overcome with rage. Of

Chad Hohn: I think I saw a vein about to blow, man.

George B. Thomas: I'm like,

Max Cohen: decisions, of all the decisions that were made about HubSpot's navigation this past year.

Chad Hohn: yeah,

Liz Moorehead: just so glad he wasn't mad at me, because I thought that's what we were gearing up for. I

Max Cohen: I'm speechless. Um. I'm

George B. Thomas: opposite. You're the opposite of speechless. I just I don't know if you know what that word means. But you are just the opposite of that.

Max Cohen: I'm so confused.

Liz Moorehead: I

George B. Thomas: takeaway that you want to leave people around content before we get them back to their regularly scheduled day?

Liz Moorehead: and a lot of tools and a lot of things can become distractions. They are very shiny bells and whistles. There are going to be lots of new ways to, to create content, to distribute content, to ideate, to do all of those different things. But at the end of the day, content. Is your way of creating a connection with the people, the humans you are trying to help with what it is that you do or sell better than anybody else. You either care about helping humans or you don't, and you can't fake that. And what's going to happen is that we are now finding greater ways to have more shortcuts put in front of us. The companies that actually give a thing about the humans. That they are serving. Look, we can, two things can be true.

We can admit we're in the business of persuasion. We can also be people who are genuinely trying to help, genuinely trying to be of service. And I think the distinctions between the companies that are actually that way and those who say they are that way, it's going to become much more abundantly clear.

Content is all about the art and artistry of what you never see. It is the iceberg that is only strong because of the piece that is under the water. There is art to this. There are tools now that we have at our disposal to automate, refine, and scale certain parts of our process, but you're still an artist.

Don't forget it.